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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ashrym" data-source="post: 9516494" data-attributes="member: 6750235">The scout rogue can't do what the ranger does, and we're comparing a subclass to a class at that point.  A fey wanderer can do a lot.  ;-)Deft explorer allows the ranger to take expertise in stealth.  2024 rangers gain expertise in 3 skills instead of the 4 bards or rogues gain, but pass without trace makes that moot. It's 15 DC to hide and perception isn't great on most monsters so DEX bonus + proficiency bonus + spell bonus is plenty without expertise.2014 and 2024 rangers are great at stealth.  I think the point of contention is using magic to supplement it.2024 rangers don't need a feat or multiclass for expertise, and the +10 bonus from pass without trace is better than the minimum roll from reliable talent.Access to proficiency in the survival skill gives rangers an advantage in the wilderness rogues don't have.Add roving (movement benefits), tireless (removes exhaustion; often caused by environmental factors), and several nature oriented spells.  They can also choose druidic warrior instead of a fighting style.This where arguments appear.  Not everyone likes the spellcasting and not everyone wants to get rid of the spellcasting.  What we have in both cases is still going to be spellcasting at this point so that preference becomes moot outside of 3PP and homebrew.I am a fan of adding more ranger specific spells including more marking spells, and changing favored enemy to be a selection of one of the marking spells as a way to improve the class.  Without getting carried away on OP spells.  ;-)</blockquote>

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