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Message: <blockquote data-quote="James Gasik" data-source="post: 9519712" data-attributes="member: 6877472">I miss 4e's take on this.  You have a class, but it doesn't provide any capstone, just more abilities.  It's at levels 11 and 21 that you get new abilities that define your character.The Thief of Legend can steal anything, even his own soul.  A warrior might become the Dread Pirate Roberts- even if he should die, he has an understudy he has mentored to take his mantle, replacing the original so that their legend may endure.I understand that some people don't like their D&D games being so mythic, but that's why you have break points- when ogres and trolls stop being threats, you can move up to giants, or even dragons.  And from there, to powerful extraplanar threats, where you're sailing the decapitated head of a dead god through the Astral Sea on route to a showdown with the would be emperor of the Githyanki as a stepping stone to dealing with Tiamat herself.If you don't want the game to shift into overdrive, you don't really have to.  You can stay playing a game where the best ability your class can give you is upgrading d6's to d10's for bonus damage.And if you do want the game to feel epic, you can advance to something like the ability to steal the sound of a cat's footfall or the ambition of a mighty warlord.</blockquote>