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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 6736629" data-attributes="member: 4937">I do to in a way, but we must be very clear by what we mean by 'selfishness'.&nbsp; Selfishness means to care for self at the expense of others, or to value oneself much more highly than others.&nbsp; As my essay on Evil indicates, that would be evil in its nature.But the chaotic end of the spectrum argues that it's possible to be self-willed, self-centered, self-empowered, and self-interested without actually being selfish.&nbsp; And this is inherent in chaos, because the nature of chaos is for each thing to have no relationship to anything else.&nbsp; If things have relationships between other things, then there are laws, then there is truth, then there is patterns, and then there is order.&nbsp; Chaos says that the value of everything is in its intrinsic self.&nbsp; Conversely, at the other end of the spectrum, law has it that things are only defined by their relationships to other things, and nothing has meaning in and of itself.You are largely correct but selfish and selfless are not perfect antonyms.&nbsp; A thing can be both not selfish and not selfless.Do you see it?&nbsp; I mean it's right there.&nbsp; You have it; you are otherwise just spot on in your discussion.&nbsp; Now you just have to rid from your notion of evil the idea that its primarily about selfishness, but rather that selfishness is but one of many manifestations of evil, and then you've got it.I don't either, but I also don't see selfishness as the preeminent definition of evil.&nbsp; Certainly all CE's are selfish, but defining all evil as selfish makes LE potentially an oxymoron.&nbsp; Which, is what this thread is about.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 6736629, member: 4937"] I do to in a way, but we must be very clear by what we mean by 'selfishness'. Selfishness means to care for self at the expense of others, or to value oneself much more highly than others. As my essay on Evil indicates, that would be evil in its nature. But the chaotic end of the spectrum argues that it's possible to be self-willed, self-centered, self-empowered, and self-interested without actually being selfish. And this is inherent in chaos, because the nature of chaos is for each thing to have no relationship to anything else. If things have relationships between other things, then there are laws, then there is truth, then there is patterns, and then there is order. Chaos says that the value of everything is in its intrinsic self. Conversely, at the other end of the spectrum, law has it that things are only defined by their relationships to other things, and nothing has meaning in and of itself. You are largely correct but selfish and selfless are not perfect antonyms. A thing can be both not selfish and not selfless. Do you see it? I mean it's right there. You have it; you are otherwise just spot on in your discussion. Now you just have to rid from your notion of evil the idea that its primarily about selfishness, but rather that selfishness is but one of many manifestations of evil, and then you've got it. I don't either, but I also don't see selfishness as the preeminent definition of evil. Certainly all CE's are selfish, but defining all evil as selfish makes LE potentially an oxymoron. Which, is what this thread is about. [/QUOTE]

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