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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6736909" data-attributes="member: 16814">I believe you just labeled self determination as intrinsically selfish. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />  Interesting take, but I don't agree.Um, that's not actually a question.  Did you want me to guess your specific interests? Um, yeah, we agree?I think we're crossing definitions of selfless here.  In this case, you seem to mean absence of awareness of self.  I've been using it as actions or thoughts that consider the needs of others above or instead of the needs of yourself.  Going with my definition, it's pretty easy to be selfless and still choose what value things have based solely on your own perceptions and ideas.  It's just as easy to be selfish and do the same.  Um, if you reread that, I spoke of "a caste system which exists to harshly stratify society into have and have nots."  The bolded part separates out the generic caste system from the one I was discussing -- which has the goal to enforce uneven rights and privileges harshly.  Quibble:  the celestial hierarchy isn't for the maintaining of individual power, but for smooth operation and understanding of duty.  Every layer of that hierarchy agrees with the goals and means, understands it's place in achieving those, and has no interest in upsetting the apple cart by seeking to gain or maintain power.  In some of the literature, there's even mobility between ranks based on egalitarian principles.So far the contradictions don't seem to be actual ones, just ones of misunderstanding of intent.  For my part in that, apologies.No, I disagree.  A CG person may very well think that they will bring a better situation for all by assuming power.  Power and ambition are not limited by alignment, just the targets of ambition and the means to acquire power.  A CG person would want to assume power because they believe they had the ability to improve the lives of others, but not to impose a confining social order.  The leader of a tribe or the speaker of an informal assembly would be good examples. A LG person would not take the power unless they did think they had the right, as dictated by others or by a social code, to do so.Only quibble is that I think that Asmodeus does, indeed, desire personal power.  Otherwise, no objections.I said so. Right there when I said "LE barrister".  I wasn't being coy.  I didn't give a dossier on his motivations, true, but that's because I wasn't presenting a character for analysis -- I was presenting an example of a LE barrister using the system for his own, personal benefit.I think that this is very true.  In fact, most dictatorships would be CE.  The laws are the whims and dictates of the ruler and subject to change at his pleasure.  The primary tool of compliance is fear and brutality.On the other hand, a benevolent dictatorship could be CG.  The laws are still the whim and dictate of the ruler, and subject to their will, but the effects are for the betterment of the whole group and to relieve suffering to the highest extent.</blockquote>

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