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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ovinomancer" data-source="post: 6738058" data-attributes="member: 16814">I was fine at being at an impasse until you grossly misrepresented my position.  I clearly did NOT define lawful and chaotic that way, you're just taking the example I gave of a lawyer and assuming that was the entirety of my position.  The barrister is lawful, yes, and in his case that exhibits as following the law of his society and in maintaining his social position and standing within that society.  Considering I define, clearly, Lawful as being defining yourself according to a social construct, I fail to understand why you would think that a barrister defining himself by the legal system he lives in and the social structure of his society is somehow a) me defining Lawful as following the law; or b) me saying this is the only possible lawful.The rest of your post is similarly mischaracterizing my position so that you can conveniently dismiss them.  You should have stopped at 'we disagree'.There's nothing good in what the kamikazee does because he sacrifices himself to kill others.  There may not be evil in that act, but there's little of good.  I was clear that it wasn't just sacrifice that was the good, it was the intent of the sacrifice.  Giving of yourself is not characterized by the kamikazee pilot.No, because accepting something freely given is not the same as taking something without regard. Taking implied taking without permission, by force or deceit.  Again, I'm dumbfounded that you would be angry that an example of a lawyer that believes in the social construct of the law is someone evading my definition of Lawful as defining yourself according to a social construct.  The barrister was a quick example.  If you recall, I didn't even spend more than a few sentence on him until you started wanting to know his entire life story.  Further, I have, at no point, ever defined chaotic as 'doesn't follow the law'.  I can easily envision a chaotic person that generally follows laws because it's just easier to get along that way, but never really agrees with the need for the laws.Let me give you a suggestion, the next time you think I'm skating off into weirdville -- ask me directly your question.  Don't spend post after post going around obliquely asking for more details on narrow front to try and discover what I mean -- that's a great way to not discover it.  Ask me. We could have solved the barrister bit a long time ago -- it's a throwaway example for me, and not the pinnacle of what I think LE is.</blockquote>

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