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<blockquote data-quote="Neonchameleon" data-source="post: 9273928" data-attributes="member: 87792">And level 4 is just before alchemists really fall off; they don't get the huge spike most classes do for level 5. Instead at level 4 they have level 1 spells, and their alchemy and items can cover for level 2. Instead their extra damage thing is the extra d8 to their cantrips that clerics get (although slightly earlier)As a rule of thumb approximate contributions are:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Battle Smith is a (Tasha's) Beastmaster ranger (different skills, the magic weapon worth archery fighting style, and their other magic items worth skills and/or shenanigans); even the spells match</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Artillerist is similar if and only if they start with their canon in play. If they need to use the first turn to bring it out that's a huge loss of effectiveness.</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Armourer has a problem that they can't actually use magic armour and magic weapons for a long time:<ul>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Infiltrator is a ranger-without-a-subclass. Similar AC, similar stealth capability if they aren't' in the heaviest medium armour, similar skills and contributions level as mentioned earlier but no Hunter's Mark or extra damage from their subclass</li>
<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Guardian is a smiteless paladin (or one who has to use smite-spells) and has weak gauntlet damage because no duelist style, no magic weapons if they have magic armour. And they don't get the aura.</li>
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<li data-xf-list-type="ul">Alchemist? Does baseline damage like a cleric but lacks the big stuff. Or even the workhorse of Spiritual Weapon. So round by round like a full caster, burst damage like a half caster - and not even a smiting paladin.</li>
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[QUOTE="Neonchameleon, post: 9273928, member: 87792"] And level 4 is just before alchemists [I]really[/I] fall off; they don't get the huge spike most classes do for level 5. Instead at level 4 they have level 1 spells, and their alchemy and items can cover for level 2. Instead their extra damage [I]thing[/I] is the extra d8 to their cantrips that clerics get (although slightly earlier) As a rule of thumb approximate contributions are: [LIST] [*]Battle Smith is a (Tasha's) Beastmaster ranger (different skills, the magic weapon worth archery fighting style, and their other magic items worth skills and/or shenanigans); even the spells match [*]Artillerist is similar [I]if and only if they start with their canon in play[/I]. If they need to use the first turn to bring it out that's a huge loss of effectiveness. [*]Armourer has a problem that they can't actually use magic armour and magic weapons for a long time: [LIST] [*]Infiltrator is a ranger-without-a-subclass. Similar AC, similar stealth capability if they aren't' in the heaviest medium armour, similar skills and contributions level as mentioned earlier but no Hunter's Mark or extra damage from their subclass [*]Guardian is a smiteless paladin (or one who has to use smite-spells) and has weak gauntlet damage because no duelist style, no magic weapons if they have magic armour. And they don't get the aura. [/LIST] [*]Alchemist? Does baseline damage like a cleric but lacks the big stuff. Or even the workhorse of Spiritual Weapon. So round by round like a full caster, burst damage like a half caster - and not even a smiting paladin. [/LIST] [/QUOTE]

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