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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6667612" data-attributes="member: 996">You mean like 'no spells?'   Those don't sound like they'd be terribly rare situations.  Not necessarily, but, again, doesn't seem like it's terribly rare that monsters get damaged in combat. Now it sounds like you're making some assumptions, too.I mean, he's making a case that some other classes have greater DPR potential than the fighter, even without spells, and you're poking some pretty small holes in it.  I don't buy what either of you are selling.  I think you're both diving too far down the rabbithole on a very simple question.  Is there really any class in 5e that's just sucks out loud in combat? I don't get the impression there is.  They may not be neatly or obviously balanced, but they can all have a pretty significant impact once initiative is rolled, at least some of the time.</blockquote>