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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6667632" data-attributes="member: 996">I run whatever I want.  <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink    ;)"  data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" />But it hardly seems like it'd be rare for a Paladin (or fighter) to smack the BBGEG.    The assumption that a maneuver contingent on an enemy action would consistently work. That strikes me as ignoring a more significant limitation than an enemy having taken damage already.  If only because one's contingent on something that's already established, while the other's contingent on a future decision. It is the nature of that sort of analysis that you can skew them a bit with weird assumptions, but, no, I'm not see'n the big holes.   I am seeing a desire on both sides to compare one class at it's best to another off-peak, and that's not helpful.  The fighter's best is pretty damn good, thanks to the way multiple attacks amplify any damage boost.  He's hardly alone in that.The 'reliability' legacy is something fighters have always had going for them, such as it was.  I think it's funny that we're both revisiting the old fighter-as-consistent paradigm, and looking to average out the big peak damage of Action Surge to make valid comparisons with other classes.  Clearly the fighter did get Action Surge, and can use it to gain a round of peak power in a sufficiently significant fight.  So, while the pre-4e fighter couldn't 'bring his A game' when the chips were down, the 5e fighter still can, albeit, in the form of yet more attacks on top of his already 2e-like multi-attacking DPR.  Just as clearly, lots of other classes can bring a lot of damage when they need to (or even when they don't particularly need to), and do a lot of other things instead or as well, depending on the resources in question.</blockquote>

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