Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Jefe Bergenstein" data-source="post: 6667679" data-attributes="member: 31506">You do realize we're both pot and kettle here, correct? Both are quite set in our ways, and convinced the other is wrong. In ivory tower games, sure. In real games, which dont begin at 14th level or spend a bulk of their time there, no they dont. Level 1-5 the fighter has 0 feats over the other classes. Level 6-13 they get one more. And that's the band people play more, per WOTC's data, since their survey indicated games end around 10-12.So the 10th level champion fighter gets 1 more ASI (or feat in games that use them), can heal d10+level and action surge once per short rest. They get remarkable athlete, which is pretty crappy, an expanded crit range and an extra fighting style. If your game makes it to 11 you get an extra attack compared to the paladin adding d8 to his 2 attacks.The paladin gets divine sense (campaign dependent), Lay on Hands (which at 10th level heals the equivalent of 3 second winds, only it's much better because it can go all in one shot, cure disease, be spread around, etc). The paladin is immune to disease and frightened and adds his charisma bonus to all saves. He extends the immunity to fear and saving throw bonus to his allies within 10 feet as well. He has 4/3/2 spells, which can be cashed in for smites (that grant a bonus vs undead and fiends, again campaign dependent, but not unreasonably so). And that's before we look at what his oath gives (additional spells prepared, channel divinity, and an extra aura (the ancient's resistance to spell damage in particular is nice) The paladin is going to be better in the social arena, but since his charisma bonus also helps his saves, investing in that gives him bigger returns on safety in the combat/exploration pillar as well. The fighter peaks early, which can be an issue if you allow multiclassing. The paladin has more group utility, and certainly comes out ahead in games without a ton of DM handholding to ensure that the 6-8 encounters the fighter depends on are railroaded down everyone's throat. Even with an extra feat or two, the champion fighter is still lacking in class features. Yes, please. Let's have some honesty and look at how games are actually played. The 6-8 meaningful encounter day is a myth outside of a very specific type of dungeon crawl hack and slash fest that allows for 1 hour naps several times a day. So is the idea that most games spend much time post level 14 where the second feat/ASI kicks in.</blockquote>

Verification