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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6668252" data-attributes="member: 996">You made a claim.  You provided a list of characters from myth whom you considered examples of 'mundane' fighter.  Your claim.  Your list.It contains characters from myth who displayed superhuman abilities.   Cu Chulain, for instance, could throw three spears so quickly that all three were in the air at the same time.  Not super-human enough for you?He could leap onto the last spear, balance on it, leap to the second, then the first, and ride it to the target.Celtic mythology has heroes doing all sorts of bizarre, super-human, and impossible things like that.  Killing with a shout, punching the top off a mountain, leaping over the walls of a fortress, etc.  Blame it on the bards' use of hyperbole...Roland, as already mentioned, performed some super-human feats in battle, not many of them attributable entirely to Durendal.And, even though your list resorts to pulling historical as well as mythical figures, it's not hard to find some super-human feats attributed to some of them, as well.  Yue-Fei, for instance, supposedly used a bow with a 400-lb pull.  That standard of realism that D&D strangely seems to resort to where the fighter's concerned is a very modern one.  Beowulf didn't have any magical powers and wasn't of divine origin, so I don't see why you left him out.  Except, perhaps, that the example of him ripping Grendel's arm off had already been brought up...The "Strength of Ten" idiom was Galahad, and Lancelot and Galahad were both divinely-empowered, archetypes suitable to the Paladin more than the fighter.  "Not doing enough" does not preclude doing /something/, in fact it strongly implies it.  It's the fighter that's got an identity crisis going.  On the one hand, the things it can do (beyond hitting stuff) in an active sense are profoundly constricted, ostensibly by realism.  On the other, like all D&D characters, he eventually gets enough hps to survive absurd dangers, like falls from great heights, or going mano-y-mano with a T-Rex.  It's just another example of the odd double-standard D&D perpetuates. Not that startling a feat in Celtic mythology, where the hero might leap over a fortress wall from a standing start. sounds familiar, but I can't place it. Well, there is a hard cap on stats, now.  And bounded accuracy could easily be seen as creating the impression that improvement from level 1 is not all that dramatic in skills, in general.  And being high level lets you rip off monsters' arms, how, exactly?</blockquote>

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