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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 6668685" data-attributes="member: 996">IIRC, Ashkelon wanted D&amp;D fighters to be able to emulate the kinds of things characters in genre/myth/legend could do, and claimed that the fighter couldn't do all those things.&nbsp; Now, that admits that it can do some, like perhaps slay a dragon, for instance, an example he used, himself.That's not the kind of claim that can be disproven with a counter-example.In fact, the burden of proof was really on him, initially.&nbsp; You can't prove the negative:&nbsp; that there is no ability displayed by any character in genre/myth/legend that can't be done by a D&amp;D fighter.&nbsp; You'd have to examine every such character ever conceived, and that's impractical in the extreme.Ashkelon, OTOH, just needed a few examples, or better yet, perhaps, established 'tropes,' that illustrate his claim.&nbsp; Those have been provided in this thread (and should be familiar from others).&nbsp; Even so, you gave a list that included characters who displayed super-human abilities, a few of them, quite a lot of the time, /and/ included historical figures who were not from genre/myth/legend at all.&nbsp; I don't want to mis-characterize whatever claim you thought you were supporting or refuting with that list, but it can't be a claim that refutes the display of super-human feats, or that is about characters taken only from genre/myth/legend. &nbsp;Multi-attacking more than any other class, and consequently more potential to maximize DPR from static bonuses, mechanically.&nbsp; Is that really a legacy of the 5e fighter, though?&nbsp; The 2e fighter got more attacks/round than other classes, and was able to generate a lot of damage with them.Hmm... to really think about the original topic, what does the 5e fighter do that's new or unique?The 5e fighter......gets multiple attacks as it levels...&nbsp; so did the AD&amp;D fighter....self-heals (second wind)...&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; so did the 4e fighter (really, everyone got 'second wind)....gets a limited Extra Action resource...&nbsp; so did the 4e fighter (really, everyone, via Action Points)....gets two bonus ASIs that could be used for feats...&nbsp; the 3e fighter got 11 bonus feats....the Champion gets enhanced criticals...&nbsp; so did the 3e fighter (Improved Critical feat)....the Battlemaster gets a few limited-use maneuvers...&nbsp;&nbsp; the 4e fighter got many more....the Eldritch Knight casts spells...&nbsp; &nbsp; so did the 3.5 Eldritch Knight (though it was a PrC)....?</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 6668685, member: 996"] IIRC, Ashkelon wanted D&D fighters to be able to emulate the kinds of things characters in genre/myth/legend could do, and claimed that the fighter couldn't do all those things. Now, that admits that it can do some, like perhaps slay a dragon, for instance, an example he used, himself. That's not the kind of claim that can be disproven with a counter-example. In fact, the burden of proof was really on him, initially. You can't prove the negative: that there is no ability displayed by any character in genre/myth/legend that can't be done by a D&D fighter. You'd have to examine every such character ever conceived, and that's impractical in the extreme. Ashkelon, OTOH, just needed a few examples, or better yet, perhaps, established 'tropes,' that illustrate his claim. Those have been provided in this thread (and should be familiar from others). Even so, you gave a list that included characters who displayed super-human abilities, a few of them, quite a lot of the time, /and/ included historical figures who were not from genre/myth/legend at all. I don't want to mis-characterize whatever claim you thought you were supporting or refuting with that list, but it can't be a claim that refutes the display of super-human feats, or that is about characters taken only from genre/myth/legend. Multi-attacking more than any other class, and consequently more potential to maximize DPR from static bonuses, mechanically. Is that really a legacy of the 5e fighter, though? The 2e fighter got more attacks/round than other classes, and was able to generate a lot of damage with them. Hmm... to really think about the original topic, what does the 5e fighter do that's new or unique? The 5e fighter... ...gets multiple attacks as it levels... so did the AD&D fighter. ...self-heals (second wind)... so did the 4e fighter (really, everyone got 'second wind). ...gets a limited Extra Action resource... so did the 4e fighter (really, everyone, via Action Points). ...gets two bonus ASIs that could be used for feats... the 3e fighter got 11 bonus feats. ...the Champion gets enhanced criticals... so did the 3e fighter (Improved Critical feat). ...the Battlemaster gets a few limited-use maneuvers... the 4e fighter got many more. ...the Eldritch Knight casts spells... so did the 3.5 Eldritch Knight (though it was a PrC). ...? [/QUOTE]

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