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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 5566529" data-attributes="member: 4937">One thing that has always intrigued me about D&D is that there are certain monsters which are a challenge at low levels, which very quickly cease to be a challenge so that within only a few levels they aren't even a nuisance and consume virtually no resources to overcome.  But, other monsters - no more a challenge than there peers to a low level foe - manage to hang on as challenges even as the party grows in level so that you might find yourself fighting the same monsters under increasingly difficult circumstances for most of your career.As a DM I find myself relying pretty heavily on these monsters.I'm not talking about monsters that can simply be scaled up in power as any monster can be scaled up - which third edition showed explicitly and even 1st edition implied.  I'm talking about monsters which while retaining the same stats remain an non-zero challenge over twelve or more levels and still might in numbers threaten even a powerful character.  I'm likewise not talking about Tucker's Kobolds or similar scenarios where the monster is merely the trigger for a sentient trap.  Tucker's Kobolds typically involve the DM abusing the rules, bending the rules, preferentially ruling in favor of monsters in circumstances where things would never work if the PC's tried them, and simply by making the monsters stats irrelevant in the encounter.  Obviously, the monster is irrelevant in the case and the real challenge is a combination the devious trap and getting the DM to admit that you killed his pet monsters.For example, the zombie is not a monster of this sort.  At low levels a gang of zombies might represent a considerable challenge to a group of players, but within only a few levels these lumbering, landbound, melee only, stupid, turnable creatures with low BAB and no special attacks are rendered irrelevant unless the DM turns the environment into a trap or advances the zombie to greater power - say an ogre zombie.The same is true of most humanoid monsters that rely on weapons to attack.  Gnolls in particular seem to gain and then lose their fearsomeness quickly.  The same is also true of virtually all animals.If we look at why this is true, certain traits stand out.a) The monster lacks a counter to an ability which the PC's will have either shortly after the monster is encountered or even by the time the PC's encounter it.  The most obvious example is Flight, which allows a party with this ability to gain an absolute advantage over landbound monsters without ranged attacks whenever it can be succesfully deployed.  This forces the DM to only use such a monster in a carefully confined space, else it won't live up to its CR.b) The monster has a low 'to hit' score not only absolutely but even for monsters of its class, usually as a result of roughly human strength, and no way of coping with high AC.   AC has an interesting property.   As your AC increases linearly, your expected damage decreases exponentionally.   A monster that hits you 15% of the time, does only 1/3rd as much damage if your AC goes up by two.   Monsters of this sort might be a threat at level 1, still a nuisance at level 3, only to cease to be a threat even in twenty or forty times their original number by level 5.   Skeletons are monsters of this sort, as are most low HD humanoids with roughly human characteristics (including humans!).   Such monsters only stay relevant by being granted massive advantages in terrain and tactical position, and refusing to give open battle.  Orcs do slightly better with their high strength scores, but they two soon lose relevance.  Meanwhile ogres with their high strength and reach might remain at least somewhat relavant for 6-8 levels after they are first encountered.c) Not undead, or undead with signficant resistance to turning.  Once a party has twice the HD of an undead creature, it's usually reduced to insignificance.  Many low HD undead qualify, though minimal bolstering from the environment (unhallow for example) can usually deal with this problem without elaborate environment considerations.Some monsters do exceptionally well and these are the ones which have what I call 'level independent abilities'.  Some examples include:a) Incorporeal: Incorporeal creatures ignore armor and have a 50% chance of ignoring most attacks.  This makes it incredibly difficult to get sufficient AC to make their attacks irrelevant, and gives them protection that almost always negates at least some attacks regardless of how high your attack bonus is or how difficult your saving throws are.b) Touch Attacks Generally: Any touch attack is good.c) Breath Weapons: Most breath weapons are of the 'save or half damage' variaty, which means they typically remain relavant to all but Rogues regardless of how easy the saving throw is.d) Certain spells: Spells that are 'save partial' usually have some effect regardless of how good the opponents saves are.  Better yet, some spells like magic missile offer no save, and so are exceptionally difficult to defend against.   A monster that has the ability to cast magic missile 3/day is relevant for three rounds almost regardless of the parties level.e) At least minimal defensive suite: Monsters that have a combination of flight, ranged attacks, and the ability to detect invisible creatures are able to counter most of the battlefield control and evasion that a party might try.  Additional abilities like spring attack, combat reflexes, relatively high attack bonus for its CR, DR/-, immunities, area attacks, improved grab, high movement rate, and some sort of battlefield control add to and enhance the minimum package or help compensate for some deficiency in it.  These abilties are often found in anything intended to have high CR and well designed, but there presence in a low CR monster indicates a monster that has a real life expectancy.f) Ability drain: Attacks that effect relatively static ability scores as opposed to hit points remain relevant for longer periods. Some well known monsters that meet these standards in whole or in part are:Shadow (without cleric) Wraith (without cleric)DragonMephitHell HoundHellwasp Swarm (or swarms generally)StirgeHuge Air ElementalFire Giant So, what about it?   Have I missed any monsters under 12 CR whose abilities give them great endurance as a monster even as the party climbs in level, particularly those that might be hiding in obscure 3rd edition tomes?   What about earlier editions?  I can make similar lists for 1st edition, but I'll leave that excercise to the interested reader for now.</blockquote>

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