The Limits of Action

[Craer]

I've been thinking recently. Assume this situation.

You're running an Oriental Adventures campaign. Mirumoto the samurai is facing off against Banzo the evil monk. Banzo is really whacking the crap out of Mirumoto, but Mirumoto is still hanging in there, albeit getting desperate. Mirumoto's player says to you, "I ready an action so that if Banzo punches me and misses, I sidestep and cut off his arm."

How do you handle a situation like this, where common sense dictates that the player's disire is completely within reasonable action, yet the rules do not allow such an event, nor do they provide guidelines to have it happen if you so wish? I'm not looking for an answer to this situation in particular (although I would be interested in your responses anyway), I wish to address the limits of a system like D20. Maybe I'm suffering player/DM burnout, but the more I play third edition D&D, the more it seems to me like a video game, in the aspect that you have options A, B, C, and D, and you cannot do anything else.

I don't want to go into the constant and virtually required min/maxxing of feats and skills to simply stay on par with the enemies, but like I said. It's been bothering me. Your replies are appreciated.

 

[Zenon]

I would say sure, then state "the next time the monk hits you, he will break both your wrists that are wielding your katana".

Seriously, with an abstract damage system (which is see in several games and not just D&D/d20), these kind of actions are just not possible. It is assumed in the rules that the samurai is doing his best to cut the monks arm off. His hit rolls reflects that along with his damage rolls.

I can understand the players frustration, especially if he's getting the snot kicked out of him, but you simply have to explain that such explicit action aren't allowed under the rules.

And if he keeps pressing you, you can reply "sure, we can use them but my NPC's will be able to call those same kind of damage shots on you". I bet your player won't want to see that kind of "realistic" damage done to his character!

Your other alternative is to shift from a straight "hit point" system to a "grim 'n' gritty" hit point system.

After all, in a realistic game, a monk could crush the samurai's throat with one shot or the samurai could drive 3 foot of steel through the monk, but how much fun is that?

 

[Crothian]

Okay, Samurai readies an action. Monk attack and misses, Samurai takes redied action with +2 to attack circumstance bonus (rules for DMs using these are in the DMG). If the hit is a crit, they he might have cut the arm off, or at least very severely.

 

[Craer]

Interesting ideas, both of you, but I'm looking more for solutions, or at least ideas towards making it easier to figure out the "grim and gritty" way of thinking, as Zenon put it.

 

[jollyninja]

i switched to the wound/vitality point system for reasons such as this. it's easyer to accuont for called shots and their effects. also i allow people to take a -10 to strike directly at the enemies wound points for half damage. in some games i'm sure that would be a huge problem but i tend to run a game where that -10 allmost allways means a miss. if the character expresses exactly what he is trying to do, a successful hit will effect the part of the body he was aiming at ie severing the arm. and i decide the aditional effects if any like bleeding, mental trauma, loss of any desire to continue fighting ect....

for that situation i would have let the samurai make a bluff check vs the monk's sense motive, if the samurai beat him, i would make the monk's first attack miss automatically and give the samurai one attack on the arm at a -2 (the arm would probably be a tiny creature) if he hit for reasonable damage i would say it was disabled which really does not effect the monk at all, he can kick instead. if he criticalled i would say the arm was off and the monk was effected as though hit by a weapon of wounding. if the samurai missed, the monk would simply finish his round's attacks as normal.

you just have to get verry creative with the rules, it's usually fairly easy to come up with some way for the player to do what he wants, i have never told a player that he could not do anything, i just say "ok, gimmie a minute while i think of a way to do that" my players learn quickly that sense motive= life. bluff, tumble, jump and balance as well as climb to a lesser extent see alot of use during my combats.

edit: if you have not seen the wound/vitality point system, read or buy a copy of the revised star wars d20 book. they are fairly simple, they allow more options for the players but do increase the likleyhood of character deaths. i think cthuhlu d20 uses them as well but i am not 100% sure on that.

 

[Oni]

Situations like this are why I am not so fond of the sunder rules. If you can attack the fighters weapon and break it, but you can't attack the monks weapon (his fist) and break it. Basically raises the question of, if I can make called shots to someones equipment, why can't I make called shots to various parts of their body?

 

[Dinkeldog]

There are limitations to using your own body that don't apply to weapons. You need to have a druid buddy to cast magic fang for you, for one. You also have to pay through the nose to get the nifty amulet that gives you a bonus to hit with your natural weapons (in S&F).

I prefer abstract, but whatever floats your boat. At any rate, you're looking for house rules, so off the thread goes to find its new home.

 

[Tonguez]

Like Jollyninja said switch to VP/Wounds and have called shots effect Wounds

IMC the kind of Call shot you describe would be allowed but would require a Nat20 Crit to be successful. The Samurai would also have a -5 penalty

Damage = Targets Con results in a Wound (-1 vp per round)
Crit Damage = Con results in Maiming of the limb -2 to attack
Crit Damage = Double Con Disabled (cannot use)
Nat20 Damage = Triple Con Severed

The Target is also allowed a reflex save to reduce the effect one level (eg a disabled arms becomes maimed)
A severed limb requires a Fort save or the target goes into shock

 

[Zappo]

I agree with Crothian. The system is there; it's not true that such actions are forbidden like in a videogame. It is only true that they are not very well represented.

Action is readied; when the monk strikes and misses the player makes an attack with a +2 circumstance modifier. If it's hard enough to send the monk to 0 or negatives, consider the arm severed. A crit helps. Yeah, it's impossible to sever an arm from a full-HP high level monk. The system is explicitly designed to reduce that kind of randomness from combat, but that's not a bug, it's a feature.

 

[Craer]

Alas, I was not looking for houserules, but a discussion on the limits of the system, using my monk/samurai situation as an example. In any case, if it is at all possible, please switch it back to the general forum. If not, then please, folks, continue to post your house rules. I'll just start another thread if this can't be moved back. Thanks either way, mods.

-Craer