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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The Linear Fighter/Quadratic Wizard Problem
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<blockquote data-quote="Undrave" data-source="post: 8745132" data-attributes="member: 7015698"><p>It depends how you build your classes. If you got 20 classes but they only take 1-2 pages each, is that more or less simple and streamlined than the current PHB? </p><p></p><p>My point was that deciding that the 'I just want to attack' class should be included into the same class as the Battlemaster is an arbitrary form of streamlining that actively reduced the design space of the Fighter.</p><p></p><p></p><p>In base 5e, the following spells are exclusives to the listed classes (note that Sorcerers have ZERO exclusive spells) </p><p></p><p>Bard Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Vicious Mockery</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Dissonant Whispers</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Compulsion</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Power Word Heal</li> </ul><p>Cleric Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sacred Flame</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spare the Dying</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thaumaturgy</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Inflict Wounds</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sanctuary</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Augury (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hallow</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prayer of Healing</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spiritual Weapon</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Warding Bond</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Beacon of Hope</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mass Healing Word</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Spirit Guardians</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Divination (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Guardian of Faith</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Commune (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Flame Strike</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Blade Barrier</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Forbiddance (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Harm</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Planar Ally</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Word of Recall</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Conjure Celestial</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Divine Word</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Holy Aura</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mass Heal</li> </ul><p>Druid Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Druidcraft</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Produce Flame</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Shillelagh</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thorn Whip</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Entangle</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Flame Blade</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Moonbeam</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Giant Insect</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Antilife Shell</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Reincarnate</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Transport via Plants</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wall of Thorns</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wind Walk</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Animal Shapes</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tsunami</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Storm of Vengeance</li> </ul><p>Paladin Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Compelled Duel</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Divine Favor</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Searing Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Thunderous Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wrathful Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Branding Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Find Steed</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Aura of Vitality</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Blinding Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Crusader's Mantle</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Elemental Weapon</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Aura of Life</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Aura of Purity</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Staggering Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Banishing Smite</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Circle of Power</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Destructive Wave</li> </ul><p>Ranger Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Ensnaring Strike</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hail of Thorns</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hunter's Mark</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Cordon of Arrows</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Conjure Barrage</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Lightning Arrow</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Conjure Volley</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Swift Quiver</li> </ul><p>Warlock Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Eldritch Blast</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Armor of Agathys</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Arms of Hadar</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hellish Rebuke</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hex</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Hunger of Hadar</li> </ul><p>Wizard Class:</p><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Find Familiar (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Grease</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Tenser's Floating Disk (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Arcane Lock</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Melf's Acid Arrow</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Nystul's Magic Aura</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rope Trick</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Phantom Steed (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Arcane Eye</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Evard's Black Tentacles</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fabricate</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fire Shield</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Leomund's Secret Chest</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Otiluke's Resilient Sphere</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Phantasmal Killer</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Bigby's Hand</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Passwall</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Rary's Telepathic Bond (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wall of Force</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Chain Lightning</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Contingency</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Drawmij's Instant Summons (ritual)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Magic Jar</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Otilike's Freezing Sphere</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Wall of Ice</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Mordenkainen's Sword</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Sequester</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Simulacrum</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Clone</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Maze</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Telepathy</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Prismatic Wall</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Weird</li> </ul><p></p><p>I dunno what the specific reasons are (I assume thematic reasons) but that's how it is. The Wizard has the most exclusive spells. It's possible through subclasses and feats to have access to those exclusives, mind you, but if you just check the base class spell lists, this is what you get.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Undrave, post: 8745132, member: 7015698"] It depends how you build your classes. If you got 20 classes but they only take 1-2 pages each, is that more or less simple and streamlined than the current PHB? My point was that deciding that the 'I just want to attack' class should be included into the same class as the Battlemaster is an arbitrary form of streamlining that actively reduced the design space of the Fighter. In base 5e, the following spells are exclusives to the listed classes (note that Sorcerers have ZERO exclusive spells) Bard Class: [LIST] [*]Vicious Mockery [*]Dissonant Whispers [*]Compulsion [*]Power Word Heal [/LIST] Cleric Class: [LIST] [*]Sacred Flame [*]Spare the Dying [*]Thaumaturgy [*]Inflict Wounds [*]Sanctuary [*]Augury (ritual) [*]Hallow [*]Prayer of Healing [*]Spiritual Weapon [*]Warding Bond [*]Beacon of Hope [*]Mass Healing Word [*]Spirit Guardians [*]Divination (ritual) [*]Guardian of Faith [*]Commune (ritual) [*]Flame Strike [*]Blade Barrier [*]Forbiddance (ritual) [*]Harm [*]Planar Ally [*]Word of Recall [*]Conjure Celestial [*]Divine Word [*]Holy Aura [*]Mass Heal [/LIST] Druid Class: [LIST] [*]Druidcraft [*]Produce Flame [*]Shillelagh [*]Thorn Whip [*]Entangle [*]Flame Blade [*]Moonbeam [*]Giant Insect [*]Antilife Shell [*]Reincarnate [*]Transport via Plants [*]Wall of Thorns [*]Wind Walk [*]Animal Shapes [*]Tsunami [*]Storm of Vengeance [/LIST] Paladin Class: [LIST] [*]Compelled Duel [*]Divine Favor [*]Searing Smite [*]Thunderous Smite [*]Wrathful Smite [*]Branding Smite [*]Find Steed [*]Aura of Vitality [*]Blinding Smite [*]Crusader's Mantle [*]Elemental Weapon [*]Aura of Life [*]Aura of Purity [*]Staggering Smite [*]Banishing Smite [*]Circle of Power [*]Destructive Wave [/LIST] Ranger Class: [LIST] [*]Ensnaring Strike [*]Hail of Thorns [*]Hunter's Mark [*]Cordon of Arrows [*]Conjure Barrage [*]Lightning Arrow [*]Conjure Volley [*]Swift Quiver [/LIST] Warlock Class: [LIST] [*]Eldritch Blast [*]Armor of Agathys [*]Arms of Hadar [*]Hellish Rebuke [*]Hex [*]Hunger of Hadar [/LIST] Wizard Class: [LIST] [*]Find Familiar (ritual) [*]Grease [*]Tenser's Floating Disk (ritual) [*]Arcane Lock [*]Melf's Acid Arrow [*]Nystul's Magic Aura [*]Rope Trick [*]Phantom Steed (ritual) [*]Arcane Eye [*]Evard's Black Tentacles [*]Fabricate [*]Fire Shield [*]Leomund's Secret Chest [*]Mordenkainen's Faithful Hound [*]Otiluke's Resilient Sphere [*]Phantasmal Killer [*]Bigby's Hand [*]Passwall [*]Rary's Telepathic Bond (ritual) [*]Wall of Force [*]Chain Lightning [*]Contingency [*]Drawmij's Instant Summons (ritual) [*]Magic Jar [*]Otilike's Freezing Sphere [*]Wall of Ice [*]Mordenkainen's Sword [*]Sequester [*]Simulacrum [*]Clone [*]Maze [*]Telepathy [*]Prismatic Wall [*]Weird [/LIST] I dunno what the specific reasons are (I assume thematic reasons) but that's how it is. The Wizard has the most exclusive spells. It's possible through subclasses and feats to have access to those exclusives, mind you, but if you just check the base class spell lists, this is what you get. [/QUOTE]
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