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<blockquote data-quote="Giant Octopodes" data-source="post: 8745576" data-attributes="member: 7037488">Entirely agreed, in that it being in the DMG is the same as the option not existing, I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen disarm attempts auto-fail unless being performed by a battlemaster.&nbsp; I also agree they should be in the PHB as 'Combat Maneuvers', and there should be a section detailing some of those basic actions which is at least reasonable in length.&nbsp; The part I disagree with is the 'replacing one attack'.&nbsp; Personally I'd propose a Bonus Action available to all characters, with those with martial prowess such as the fighter being able to just incorporate it into an attack and do those things While dealing damage.&nbsp; The trouble with having those abilities in lieu of dealing damage is too often, the advantages obtained are too minor to offset the lack of damage dealt, so even if someone starts out trying to utilize those abilities, they get ditched the moment the mental calculus determines just mindlessly whacking at the opponent as the 'more optimal' strategy.I'd say a good example of what martial combat in D&amp;D could be and likely should be is the pen fight from Bourne Identity.&nbsp; Both defensive grapples to restrain limbs and prevent weapons from being used against them and offensive grapples to gain positional advantages and subdue, shoves to create space, terrain and furniture coming into play as they hit each other Into them to increase damage done.&nbsp; They're not just aimlessly whacking at each other, the attacks also serve a secondary benefit and advance their attempts at strategic leverage over each other, until that advantage becomes decisive.&nbsp; To have combat actually go like that, you just need the advantages of 'Combat Maneuvers' to be quite significant to where it's as good or better than a standard attack, -or- just let those options be incorporated into standard attacks.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Giant Octopodes, post: 8745576, member: 7037488"] Entirely agreed, in that it being in the DMG is the same as the option not existing, I can't begin to tell you how many times I've seen disarm attempts auto-fail unless being performed by a battlemaster. I also agree they should be in the PHB as 'Combat Maneuvers', and there should be a section detailing some of those basic actions which is at least reasonable in length. The part I disagree with is the 'replacing one attack'. Personally I'd propose a Bonus Action available to all characters, with those with martial prowess such as the fighter being able to just incorporate it into an attack and do those things While dealing damage. The trouble with having those abilities [I]in lieu of[/I] dealing damage is too often, the advantages obtained are too minor to offset the lack of damage dealt, so even if someone starts out trying to utilize those abilities, they get ditched the moment the mental calculus determines just mindlessly whacking at the opponent as the 'more optimal' strategy. I'd say a good example of what martial combat in D&D [I]could[/I] be and likely [I]should[/I] be is the pen fight from Bourne Identity. Both defensive grapples to restrain limbs and prevent weapons from being used against them and offensive grapples to gain positional advantages and subdue, shoves to create space, terrain and furniture coming into play as they hit each other Into them to increase damage done. They're not just aimlessly whacking at each other, the attacks also serve a secondary benefit and advance their attempts at strategic leverage over each other, until that advantage becomes decisive. To have combat actually go like that, you just need the advantages of 'Combat Maneuvers' to be quite significant to where it's as good or better than a standard attack, -or- just let those options be incorporated into standard attacks. [/QUOTE]

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