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<blockquote data-quote="Giant Octopodes" data-source="post: 8746029" data-attributes="member: 7037488">This is a perfect representation of the problem with the system as it stands.&nbsp; Here's how that goes all too often, unfortunately:The Giant is slowed, so he doesn't get a reaction until his turn, folks have advantage on melee attacks since he's prone, and his AC is -2, but that only impacts melee attacks received between the fighter's turn and his and may or may not come into play at all.&nbsp; Ranged attacks being prone actually caused to be Disadvantaged, and spells are not impacted, so there's a decent chance most of the party can't or won't capitalize on that.&nbsp; On his turn though, he stands up, spending half his movement (now all his movement because he's slowed).&nbsp; He grabs his weapon back with a free object interaction, since he has reach.&nbsp; He takes his action as normal to multistrike and hits both times, dealing 56 damage.&nbsp; He easily makes the Wis save to end the slow.On the fighter's next turn, he realizes that his 3 attacks which disarmed, shoved down, and shoved back the monster didn't really do anything, and he traded 3 attacks and dealt zero damage for some effects which didn't really impact combat and a slow, and all of those things were &quot;wasting&quot; attacks which beat the AC and could have been dealing damage.&nbsp; He thinks (or maybe someone says aloud) he can't be messing around with these guys.&nbsp; Subsequent turns, he just stands next to the Giant, and his turns go something like &quot;I roll to attack it 3 times with my longsword&quot;.And this is WITH the special, upgraded system.&nbsp; In order for disarms to matter, someone needs to subsequently get rid of the weapon, which often doesn't happen.&nbsp; For trips to matter, the enemy needs to have a cause to move more than it can with half its movement.&nbsp; Those things aren't guaranteed and success at those maneuvers is not guaranteed so just standing there mindlessly attacking is often superior.&nbsp; The things you described are cool, and feel like things a fighter Should be doing in a fight, instead of mindlessly whacking away at HP pools.&nbsp; But for them to be worth it, they need to be happening as part of attacks, -with- dealing damage instead of -in lieu of- dealing damage.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Giant Octopodes, post: 8746029, member: 7037488"] This is a perfect representation of the problem with the system as it stands. Here's how that goes all too often, unfortunately: The Giant is slowed, so he doesn't get a reaction until his turn, folks have advantage on melee attacks since he's prone, and his AC is -2, but that only impacts melee attacks received between the fighter's turn and his and may or may not come into play at all. Ranged attacks being prone actually caused to be Disadvantaged, and spells are not impacted, so there's a decent chance most of the party can't or won't capitalize on that. On his turn though, he stands up, spending half his movement (now all his movement because he's slowed). He grabs his weapon back with a free object interaction, since he has reach. He takes his action as normal to multistrike and hits both times, dealing 56 damage. He easily makes the Wis save to end the slow. On the fighter's next turn, he realizes that his 3 attacks which disarmed, shoved down, and shoved back the monster didn't really do anything, and he traded 3 attacks and dealt zero damage for some effects which didn't really impact combat and a slow, and all of those things were "wasting" attacks which beat the AC and could have been dealing damage. He thinks (or maybe someone says aloud) he can't be messing around with these guys. Subsequent turns, he just stands next to the Giant, and his turns go something like "I roll to attack it 3 times with my longsword". And this is WITH the special, upgraded system. In order for disarms to matter, someone needs to subsequently get rid of the weapon, which often doesn't happen. For trips to matter, the enemy needs to have a cause to move more than it can with half its movement. Those things aren't guaranteed and success at those maneuvers is not guaranteed so just standing there mindlessly attacking is often superior. The things you described are cool, and feel like things a fighter Should be doing in a fight, instead of mindlessly whacking away at HP pools. But for them to be worth it, they need to be happening as part of attacks, -with- dealing damage instead of -in lieu of- dealing damage. [/QUOTE]

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