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<blockquote data-quote="Celebrim" data-source="post: 8746388" data-attributes="member: 4937">Why is whatever insect do not translatable to skill?Ok, I get where you are going here.&nbsp; You want a world that obeys the laws of science as you understand them.&nbsp; In the world you know, spiders climb walls because of tiny hairs and the laws of physics.&nbsp; That world is not D&amp;D's world.&nbsp; I put it to you that spiders climb walls in D&amp;D because they are magic.&nbsp; Which is why ingesting a spider and saying the right words temporarily gives you the ability to climb walls like a spider despite not growing tiny hairs and your body mass and center of gravity making it impossible even if you did.&nbsp; You've given a very coherent description of the real world.&nbsp; But it's an incoherent description of the D&amp;D world.&nbsp; If we take your description seriously, it means that a fighter at 20th level has obtained peak of what is humanly possible and he can never do more than that because he's limited by his race and the laws of physics.&nbsp; But a wizard at 1st level is already doing things that aren't humanly possible, breaking the limits of his race and the laws of physics.&nbsp; That's a pretty stark contrast.&nbsp; In the real world, doing magic is not humanly possible, yet you concede that in the D&amp;D world a mere 1st level human can do it.&nbsp; So it is not true to say that a wizard is doing what is not&nbsp; humanly possible.&nbsp; A wizard of 1st level is doing things that are in the D&amp;D world both humanly possible and indeed mundane within that world.&nbsp; And that's because the D&amp;D world is magical.&nbsp; The D&amp;D world is not the real world that happens to also have magic in it.&nbsp; The D&amp;D world is a magical world.&nbsp; All the knowledge you have of this world's physics does not apply to the D&amp;D world.&nbsp; Energy is not conserved.&nbsp; The laws of thermodynamics can be violated, because in the D&amp;D world they don't exist in order to be violated.&nbsp; People can think things into being in the D&amp;D world without dealing with E=mc^2 implying that requires enough energy to blow up a continent being channelled through the persons mind, because E=mc^2 isn't a thing in the D&amp;D universe.&nbsp; Light doesn't have constant speed in the D&amp;D universe.&nbsp; Matter in the D&amp;D universe is made up of 4 elements and not the periodic table.&nbsp;&nbsp; If you submerge a cannon in water in the D&amp;D universe and grind it, it probably stops producing heat at some point because you got all the Fire out. &nbsp; If you drop balls into clay from various heights, there is a good chance in the D&amp;D universe you find kinetic energy is linear with velocity, not the square of it.&nbsp; My point is that they have it.&nbsp; And trees have supernatural ability.&nbsp; And everything has that supernatural ability because supernatural is a meaningless word.&nbsp; If it can happen, it's not supernatural.&nbsp; There is only things you understand and things you don't understand, but nothing is supernatural.&nbsp; In the D&amp;D universe, a wizard makes a fireball and nothing supernatural happened.&nbsp; It was magic, in the same sense that the internet is magic.&nbsp; The wizard is an applied physicist in the D&amp;D universe.&nbsp; He understands the world around him, like how spiders have the power to cling to glass, and he knows how to harness that power and use it for himself the same way a miller knows how to harness a river to to power a waterwheel that powers his millstone.&nbsp; The wizard isn't violating the laws of nature because he isn't in our world where those laws apply.&nbsp; He's utilizing the laws of nature of his world.&nbsp;&nbsp; Otherwise, magic wouldn't work, like it doesn't work here because things like energy conservation prevent it from happening.Why not?&nbsp; If you look at the source material for the world of D&amp;D, it's the beliefs of people living in the pre-scientific world.&nbsp; And they would have no problem believing that a mighty warriors thewes, muscles and body structure changed and allowed him to do mighty feats.&nbsp; Only in the sense that to walk and talk like a human requires supernatural ability to make it possible.&nbsp; It's all magic.&nbsp; Everything is magic.&nbsp; The clouds moving across the sky is magic.&nbsp; The wind that blows them is magic.&nbsp; What it isn't in D&amp;D is thermodynamic heat exchange.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Celebrim, post: 8746388, member: 4937"] Why is whatever insect do not translatable to skill? Ok, I get where you are going here. You want a world that obeys the laws of science as you understand them. In the world you know, spiders climb walls because of tiny hairs and the laws of physics. That world is not D&D's world. I put it to you that spiders climb walls in D&D because they are magic. Which is why ingesting a spider and saying the right words temporarily gives you the ability to climb walls like a spider despite not growing tiny hairs and your body mass and center of gravity making it impossible even if you did. You've given a very coherent description of the real world. But it's an incoherent description of the D&D world. If we take your description seriously, it means that a fighter at 20th level has obtained peak of what is humanly possible and he can never do more than that because he's limited by his race and the laws of physics. But a wizard at 1st level is already doing things that aren't humanly possible, breaking the limits of his race and the laws of physics. That's a pretty stark contrast. In the real world, doing magic is not humanly possible, yet you concede that in the D&D world a mere 1st level human can do it. So it is not true to say that a wizard is doing what is not humanly possible. A wizard of 1st level is doing things that are in the D&D world both humanly possible and indeed mundane within that world. And that's because the D&D world is magical. The D&D world is not the real world that happens to also have magic in it. The D&D world is a magical world. All the knowledge you have of this world's physics does not apply to the D&D world. Energy is not conserved. The laws of thermodynamics can be violated, because in the D&D world they don't exist in order to be violated. People can think things into being in the D&D world without dealing with E=mc^2 implying that requires enough energy to blow up a continent being channelled through the persons mind, because E=mc^2 isn't a thing in the D&D universe. Light doesn't have constant speed in the D&D universe. Matter in the D&D universe is made up of 4 elements and not the periodic table. If you submerge a cannon in water in the D&D universe and grind it, it probably stops producing heat at some point because you got all the Fire out. If you drop balls into clay from various heights, there is a good chance in the D&D universe you find kinetic energy is linear with velocity, not the square of it. My point is that they have it. And trees have supernatural ability. And everything has that supernatural ability because supernatural is a meaningless word. If it can happen, it's not supernatural. There is only things you understand and things you don't understand, but nothing is supernatural. In the D&D universe, a wizard makes a fireball and nothing supernatural happened. It was magic, in the same sense that the internet is magic. The wizard is an applied physicist in the D&D universe. He understands the world around him, like how spiders have the power to cling to glass, and he knows how to harness that power and use it for himself the same way a miller knows how to harness a river to to power a waterwheel that powers his millstone. The wizard isn't violating the laws of nature because he isn't in our world where those laws apply. He's utilizing the laws of nature of his world. Otherwise, magic wouldn't work, like it doesn't work here because things like energy conservation prevent it from happening. Why not? If you look at the source material for the world of D&D, it's the beliefs of people living in the pre-scientific world. And they would have no problem believing that a mighty warriors thewes, muscles and body structure changed and allowed him to do mighty feats. Only in the sense that to walk and talk like a human requires supernatural ability to make it possible. It's all magic. Everything is magic. The clouds moving across the sky is magic. The wind that blows them is magic. What it isn't in D&D is thermodynamic heat exchange. [/QUOTE]

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