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The logic of OAs
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<blockquote data-quote="AbdulAlhazred" data-source="post: 5194837" data-attributes="member: 82106"><p>It works out well enough. You can't use a Heal check on yourself to get an extra save because you are ALREADY doing everything in your own power to escape the effect, which is represented by the save you get at the end of your turn. If your buddy decides to help you out he can give you a +2 or an immediate save since he's doing MORE for you than you can do for yourself. Obviously there is also the mechanical balance aspect of it, some conditions really shouldn't be that easy to escape from.</p><p></p><p>As far as objects go one pretty much must assume that the 'hit points' objects have represent a rather different sort of quantity than the abstract hit points creatures have. You hack at the door with your axe for 6 seconds and it takes some damage. The abstraction is different such that it lets you use basically the same mechanics for attacking people and objects. The result makes perfectly good sense, it takes a while to hack down a door, less time the more of a bad assed axe man you are. </p><p></p><p>Yes, any abstraction will produce some rather odd results if its applied too literally or outside the situation it was best designed to handle.</p><p></p><p>@MerricB I don't recall ANY rules in 1e that defined combat as stopping anything. You could simply move past an opponent and there really weren't any rules that even referenced opponents WRT moving. I don't even recall a formal rule about what happened if you tried to disengage. 2e went into a BIT more depth about that but not a lot, it at least defined engagement and disengagement coherently. Really the major flaw in both 1e and 2e combat systems was their poor handling of movement. Movement rates were simply much too high for the scale of combat being depicted, etc.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="AbdulAlhazred, post: 5194837, member: 82106"] It works out well enough. You can't use a Heal check on yourself to get an extra save because you are ALREADY doing everything in your own power to escape the effect, which is represented by the save you get at the end of your turn. If your buddy decides to help you out he can give you a +2 or an immediate save since he's doing MORE for you than you can do for yourself. Obviously there is also the mechanical balance aspect of it, some conditions really shouldn't be that easy to escape from. As far as objects go one pretty much must assume that the 'hit points' objects have represent a rather different sort of quantity than the abstract hit points creatures have. You hack at the door with your axe for 6 seconds and it takes some damage. The abstraction is different such that it lets you use basically the same mechanics for attacking people and objects. The result makes perfectly good sense, it takes a while to hack down a door, less time the more of a bad assed axe man you are. Yes, any abstraction will produce some rather odd results if its applied too literally or outside the situation it was best designed to handle. @MerricB I don't recall ANY rules in 1e that defined combat as stopping anything. You could simply move past an opponent and there really weren't any rules that even referenced opponents WRT moving. I don't even recall a formal rule about what happened if you tried to disengage. 2e went into a BIT more depth about that but not a lot, it at least defined engagement and disengagement coherently. Really the major flaw in both 1e and 2e combat systems was their poor handling of movement. Movement rates were simply much too high for the scale of combat being depicted, etc. [/QUOTE]
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