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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Ismaul" data-source="post: 1928270" data-attributes="member: 22035">Thanks again for all the comments.I agree totaly. D&D is very combat focused, so they must at least have a minimal capability in combat. That said, his spell list is going to force him to think more of ways to go around direct confrontation. Even the bard has more  offensive spells, including shatter, shout, greater shout and the various summon monster. The bard has more party buff spells, including healing, and the lorepilfer has more enemy debuff spells.Sure. He's got better spellcasting, but less versatile. The bard also has divine spells, including the powerful healing ones. Additionaly, the lorepilfer loses the med BAB, weapons and armor + armored casting (armor is replaced with the Deceptive ability). Remember that the bard also has bardic music, which is at least worth a couple of special abilities. Bardic music is very useful, as is betters all the party.Good remark. There is Deceptive, Mock Danger, Spellcasting and the optional Snatch the Secrets that are linked to Charisma. Snatch the Secrets will be linked to Intelligence instead. For Deceptive, it replaces light armor. If it is keyed to something else than Charisma, it might lose it usefulness. Lorepilfers are really vulnerable at low levels, they don't have armor, magic armor or shield spells. It's not that much that is keyed to Charisma. Intelligence and Dexterity are really important too, as they are key abilities for most of the class skills. Paladins have the best fighting ability, plus spells, plus special abilities (including healing). Sure their main stats must be diversified. But the lorepilfer is not the best with skills, not the best with spells, and very bad at combat. I'll have to think more about it, but I think intelligence could play a bigger role.Lot of you have suggested to make Intelligence the spellcasting ability. My primary idea was to make magic come from the lorepilfer's chaotic nature, to be a part of him. That's the reason it develops into some defensive abilities. His inner magic wards him. If i made intelligence the main stat, the defensive abilities wouldn't make sense anymore. Assuming that could be worked out, I personnaly don't like much the Vancian spellcasting system and spellbooks (I know I'm a bit biased here, but hey). One way I could see it work out, would be to base spellcasting off Charisma (spontaneous), but max spell level would require Intelligence. It's unusual, but it would stay true to the initial idea, and would make the key abilities more diversified. Clever to learn, inner capacities to cast, I see it working.Just a quick note here, I believe any caster who learns spells by writing them can only learn those on his spell list, so no need for the disclamers. Also, I'd have to remove the "Arcane Knowledge" special ability if I was going to do that. I just thought that giving the ability to transcribe spells would remove the spells known limitation in a way, and might make the lorepilfer a bit more powerful. In that case, I'd have to completely remove the spells known limit, and reduce the spells per day. I don't really want to do that. Opinions on this?For the protective special abilities. Deceptive is really required or he's dead. An alternative would be to give him light armor and armored casting like the bard, but it would remove a bit of flavor. The other abilities aren't over the top, except Elusive (sanctuary) as you've said. My first idea was to give him spell resistance like the monk (at level 13, SR 10+level). It wasn't really flavorful enough. Then I created an ability that would permit him to distract casters. Was too trickster like, looked powerful and I wasn't satisfied. So, I then created an ability called Disrupt Magic, which gave him the ability to counterspell with greater dispel without readying the action, a certain number of times per day (once at 11th level, 2 at 15, 3 at 19). Not that bad IMHO. Then I saw sanctuary, and I thought it fit really well. If you think about it, the DC is going to be 11+Cha mod, which will be 15 with 18 Charisma. A low level character with a good will save or high wisdom can make it with an average d20 roll. At high levels those will almost always succeed. It seems to be much better against fighter types, who have low will saves, but still 15 is not that hard, even with a +0 will save. Giving the ability after level 7 is really useless, and it is useless against mid-high level casters. Seems not that good finally. It's not like it's a permanent energy attack like the warlock's, it's a first level defensive spell that negates if you attack. Maybe I should make the DC increase a bit with levels to keep it useful, or add a spell resistance ability like I wanted to do before, or disrupt magic.It's funny, I too thought it looked a bit powerful at first, but after analysing it a bit right now I got really surprised. Suggestions on this? That would really help.Sorry for the real long post, hope I haven't put you all to sleep <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f61b.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":p" title="Stick out tongue    :p"  data-smilie="7"data-shortname=":p" />.Oh, and you guys prefer lorepilfer or lorethief?</blockquote>

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