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<blockquote data-quote="Ismaul" data-source="post: 2031439" data-attributes="member: 22035">Okay, so I revised the class again.Find weakness has been removed and transformed into Anticipate, while the ability comes in later, it's a bit more useful now.Because of the loss of find weakness at level 1, loretheft has been given new functionality, similar to inspire competence.Several abilities have moved up a level : hide motives, deceit, chaos mind, hide in plain sight and omnicient. Also, the bonus feats are gone. This all powers down the class a bit, and I'm not really sure if it's necessary. Should I power the class a bit more, like giving back the feats or something similar?I'm also thinking that loretheft abilities could be turned into something similar to a skill, removing the number of times per day and powering up a bit the class. Ideas?***Here is the shortened second version of the class, for reference and comparision. Only what has changed is there.[code][b]Level BAB&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; Fort Ref Will&nbsp;&nbsp; AC&nbsp; &nbsp; Special[/b]1&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; +2&nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Fast retreat, find weakness, loretheft, &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; obscure lore, secrets sense, trapfinding&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; 2&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +0&nbsp; +3&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Mock danger3&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; +3&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Hide motives, low-light vision, mindthieving4&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; +4&nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +0&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus feat5&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +1&nbsp; +4&nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Trackless step6&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; +5&nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Entropic warding 7&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; +5&nbsp;&nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Darkvision, deceit8&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +2&nbsp; +6&nbsp;&nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus feat9&nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; +6&nbsp;&nbsp; +6&nbsp; &nbsp; +1&nbsp; &nbsp; Urban camouflage10&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; +7&nbsp;&nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; Evasion, pilfer memory11&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; +7&nbsp;&nbsp; +7&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; Chaos mind12&nbsp; &nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; +8&nbsp;&nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus feat13&nbsp; &nbsp; +6/+1&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; +8&nbsp;&nbsp; +8&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; A thousand faces14&nbsp; &nbsp; +7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; +4&nbsp; +9&nbsp;&nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +2&nbsp; &nbsp; Negate magic15&nbsp; &nbsp; +7/+2&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; +9&nbsp;&nbsp; +9&nbsp; &nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Hide in plain sight16&nbsp; &nbsp; +8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; +10&nbsp; +10&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus feat17&nbsp; &nbsp; +8/+3&nbsp; &nbsp; +5&nbsp; +10&nbsp; +10&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Urban shapes18&nbsp; &nbsp; +9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; +11&nbsp; +11&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Greater entropic warding19&nbsp; &nbsp; +9/+4&nbsp; &nbsp; +6&nbsp; +11&nbsp; +11&nbsp;&nbsp; +3&nbsp; &nbsp; Omniscient20&nbsp; &nbsp; +10/+5&nbsp;&nbsp; +6&nbsp; +12&nbsp; +12&nbsp;&nbsp; +4&nbsp; &nbsp; Bonus feat[/code][size=-2]Loretheft: A number of times per day equal to one-half the lorethief’s level + his Int modifier (minimum 1), a lorethief can use his abilities to steal knowledge. Each ability requires a minimum lorethief level to qualify. Starting a lorethieving effect is a standard action, and requires only thought to activate. Some lorethieving abilities require concentration, which means the lorethief must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. If he fails at an attempt to use a lorethieving ability, it still counts against his daily limit.Find Weakness (Su): A lorethief of 1st level can use his intricate knowledge of to find ennemies’ weaknesses and exploit them. He gains a bonus equal to his class level on Knowledge checks used to find a subject’s special powers or vulnerabilities and to identify monsters, which he can use even if untrained. If he succeeds on the check, he might learn valuable information as per the skill, and gains an insight bonus of +2 to attack and damage rolls and +1 to spell DCs against this type of opponent for 3 rounds. He can extend half the insight bonus to his allies by communicating his findings as a free action, using speech or appropriate magic, such as telepathy. At 5th level, and every three lorethief levels thereafter, the bonus on attack and damage rolls increases by 1 (+3 at 5th, +4 at 8th, +5 at 11th, +6 at 14th, +7 at 17th, and +8 at 20th), while the bonus on spell DCs increases by 1 every six levels, starting at level 8 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th).Bonus Feat: At 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level), a lorethief gains a bonus feat. He may take any skilled-based feat, as long as one involved skill is a class skill. He may also take appraise magic value [Adv], brew potion, craft wondrous item, dash [War], dodge, eschew materials, extra spell [Arc], forge ring, improved diversion [Adv], inside connection [RoD], insightful [Arc], obscure lore [Adv], open minded [Adv], quick reconnoiter [Adv], scribe scroll, urban stealth [RoD] and urban tracking [RoD] if he meets the prerequisites.[/size]</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Ismaul, post: 2031439, member: 22035"] Okay, so I revised the class again. Find weakness has been removed and transformed into Anticipate, while the ability comes in later, it's a bit more useful now. Because of the loss of find weakness at level 1, loretheft has been given new functionality, similar to inspire competence. Several abilities have moved up a level : hide motives, deceit, chaos mind, hide in plain sight and omnicient. Also, the bonus feats are gone. This all powers down the class a bit, and I'm not really sure if it's necessary. Should I power the class a bit more, like giving back the feats or something similar? I'm also thinking that loretheft abilities could be turned into something similar to a skill, removing the number of times per day and powering up a bit the class. Ideas? *** Here is the shortened second version of the class, for reference and comparision. Only what has changed is there. [code] [b]Level BAB Fort Ref Will AC Special[/b] 1 +0 +0 +2 +2 +0 Fast retreat, find weakness, loretheft, obscure lore, secrets sense, trapfinding 2 +1 +0 +3 +3 +0 Mock danger 3 +1 +1 +3 +3 +0 Hide motives, low-light vision, mindthieving 4 +2 +1 +4 +4 +0 Bonus feat 5 +2 +1 +4 +4 +1 Trackless step 6 +3 +2 +5 +5 +1 Entropic warding 7 +3 +2 +5 +5 +1 Darkvision, deceit 8 +4 +2 +6 +6 +1 Bonus feat 9 +4 +3 +6 +6 +1 Urban camouflage 10 +5 +3 +7 +7 +2 Evasion, pilfer memory 11 +5 +3 +7 +7 +2 Chaos mind 12 +6/+1 +4 +8 +8 +2 Bonus feat 13 +6/+1 +4 +8 +8 +2 A thousand faces 14 +7/+2 +4 +9 +9 +2 Negate magic 15 +7/+2 +5 +9 +9 +3 Hide in plain sight 16 +8/+3 +5 +10 +10 +3 Bonus feat 17 +8/+3 +5 +10 +10 +3 Urban shapes 18 +9/+4 +6 +11 +11 +3 Greater entropic warding 19 +9/+4 +6 +11 +11 +3 Omniscient 20 +10/+5 +6 +12 +12 +4 Bonus feat[/code] [size=-2][color=lightblue][b]Loretheft:[/b][/color] A number of times per day equal to one-half the lorethief’s level + his Int modifier (minimum 1), a lorethief can use his abilities to steal knowledge. Each ability requires a minimum lorethief level to qualify. Starting a lorethieving effect is a standard action, and requires only thought to activate. Some lorethieving abilities require concentration, which means the lorethief must take a standard action each round to maintain the ability. If he fails at an attempt to use a lorethieving ability, it still counts against his daily limit. [color=darkorchid][b][i]Find Weakness (Su)[/i]:[/b][/color] A lorethief of 1st level can use his intricate knowledge of to find ennemies’ weaknesses and exploit them. He gains a bonus equal to his class level on Knowledge checks used to find a subject’s special powers or vulnerabilities and to identify monsters, which he can use even if untrained. If he succeeds on the check, he might learn valuable information as per the skill, and gains an insight bonus of +2 to attack and damage rolls and +1 to spell DCs against this type of opponent for 3 rounds. He can extend half the insight bonus to his allies by communicating his findings as a free action, using speech or appropriate magic, such as telepathy. At 5th level, and every three lorethief levels thereafter, the bonus on attack and damage rolls increases by 1 (+3 at 5th, +4 at 8th, +5 at 11th, +6 at 14th, +7 at 17th, and +8 at 20th), while the bonus on spell DCs increases by 1 every six levels, starting at level 8 (+2 at 8th, +3 at 14th, and +4 at 20th). [color=lightblue][b]Bonus Feat:[/b][/color] At 4th level and every four levels thereafter (8th, 12th, 16th and 20th level), a lorethief gains a bonus feat. He may take any skilled-based feat, as long as one involved skill is a class skill. He may also take appraise magic value [Adv], brew potion, craft wondrous item, dash [War], dodge, eschew materials, extra spell [Arc], forge ring, improved diversion [Adv], inside connection [RoD], insightful [Arc], obscure lore [Adv], open minded [Adv], quick reconnoiter [Adv], scribe scroll, urban stealth [RoD] and urban tracking [RoD] if he meets the prerequisites.[/size] [/QUOTE]

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