Upgrade your account to a Community Supporter account and remove most of the site ads.

Reply to thread

Message: <blockquote data-quote="Elder-Basilisk" data-source="post: 1513581" data-attributes="member: 3146">As I recall, there was only one that the story mentions explicitly falling--Hethio. After he ordered the assassination of the archbishop, he lost his spellcasting ability. And, you're right--he fell, not because he opposed Eadric, but because of how he opposed Eadric. Of course, that was before Saizhan so it could well be that his rationalizations would get him somewhere now as long as he could manage to believe in them wholeheartedly. And that, of course offers a new variety of conclusions that could be drawn if one thinks that empirical investigation will yield a coherent and accurate picture of the world (which Sep tells us it won't, so take it for what it's worth). Functionally, the story so far would be mostly consistent if vice and virtue were objective. I'd like to say it'd be mostly consistent if propositional truths about metaphysical beings were subjective but if that were true, the whole story would fall apart. There IS a celestial injunction whether one believes it or not. Grazz't DOES rule Azzagrazzt. Oronthon does have a special relationship with Eadric and DID support him in a number of his conflicts. There's nothing subjective about the placement of his armies or the extent of his domain. Now that the eternal and the metaphysical are the battleground on which the PCs interact, quite a bit of what might otherwise be relative has becomre quite concrete. On the other hand, the truths upon which all of these and their motivations lie--the origins of Grazz't, his relationship to Oronthon, is he really fallen, etc ARE relative to some degree or other. Or at least that's what Saizhan and Soneillon suggest. If Demogorgon can be accurately seen as an aspect of Oronthon, then Grazz't certainly can be as well. Does that make him unfallen? Maybe and maybe not. Does the answer to that question make a difference in how he acts and the possible endings to the story. You bet.</blockquote>

Verification