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Message: <blockquote data-quote="grodog" data-source="post: 1513888" data-attributes="member: 1613">a smattering of revelationVarious thoughts about the state of things vis-a-vis the new update:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I don't believe that the status quo referred to by Dispater is the status quo of Graz'zt's survival vs. destruction; instead, I think that it refers to the much grander scope of the status quo of the Great Revolt:  the Adversary has chosen to ally the devils with Graz'zt to prevent the failure of the initial Fall/Great Revolt against Oronthon, on some level.  Either Graz'zt's defeat would be a serious blow to the ability of the demons and devils to maintain their collective cold war against heaven, or---and I think this is the more likely possibility---the Adversary foresees the possibility that Graz'zt could somehow be saved/converted, like Neheal, and that his re-salvation could be achieved through Eadric's and Neheal's actions.  (Don't forget Graz'zt's pang of regret:  "For an instant, a feeling of enormous poignancy welled up from within him: a profound melancholy, which consumed him utterly. Ideals and ancient oaths broken, and bright visions of bliss and freedom brought guttering to cold ash.").  Maintaining the status quo of a fallen Graz'zt may be much more important to the Adversary than maintaining the status quo of an alive/undefeated Graz'zt....</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I think we've either seen an in-real-life- or an in-story/in-game evolution of shaizan:  "not all truths are unequal" has changed (been revealed?) over time into "Saizhan always determines the correct truth. The distinction is crucial."  In the first quotation, truth seems to be more absolutely defined to me, and is therefore discoverable/revealable/realizable:  truth is an absolute fact that can be found, named, catalogued, and achieved.  In the second quotation, truth is determined by perspective and perhaps also by experience, and this seems---again, to me---to be more relative than the first aphorism.  Where the first suggests absolutes found, the second suggests relative absolutes defined by point of view:  truth changes according to the viewer.  That the relative truth (according to point of view) can still be absolute, still seems freer to me than the first quotation's meaning.  The implications for defining "fallen" are of course immense.  </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Relatedly, if you can only truly achieve shaizan through the examination of relativistic truths from multiple points of view, then must you be fallen to even be able to consider such relativities?  Per Sep's comment in the Rogues Gallery about celestials vs. non-celestials...: ...it seems like Oronthon may be moving to create/re-create/embrace a more complex, fallen world, so to speak, where all have freewill, in order to be able to grow and change over time via experience???   </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Fillein/Jovol/Teppu suddenly strikes me as a Moorcockian Cosmic-Balance-like figure, and also, somewhat strangely, as a figure similar to John the Divine (author of the Book of Revelation)---a prophet of the end of the world (just as the Ahma parallels John the Baptist for the Sela Tramst's arrival).  Teppu's comment about "Who cares about the future?" seems characteristically fey in nature, of course, but even it struck me as much more apt to a world on the verge of eschaton.  If the Fall is abrogated, if Thingness/Nothingness is reconciled, is that the end of the world?  Did anyone else get this vibe?</li> </ul>As always, thanks for a wonderful update Sep, and for sharing the work of your players and yourself with us! <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f600.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":D" title="Big grin    :D"  data-smilie="8"data-shortname=":D" /></blockquote>

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