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<blockquote data-quote="Windjammer" data-source="post: 5026417" data-attributes="member: 60075">I'm not sure you're aware of how these items in 3E actually work. The remainder of my post (cross-posted from <a href="http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=15942&amp;page=15" target="_blank">this discussion</a>) will address this, and compare it to how this works in 4E. The gist of it is this:&nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp; &nbsp;&nbsp; The book then presents a table with ca. 30 entries of the stock enhancements that the system presupposes the PCs to acquire from level 1 to 20, complete with appropriate body slot entries for items receiving that enhancement and the price boost of the item receiving the enhancement. What that means is the following. From this point on, the DM can pretty much use, and come up with, any item he finds or can think of, and plaster the system-requirements onto them as an added bonus to whatever crazy other stuff the items do. The list works such that any combo of &quot;stock effect + crazy stuff&quot; he can dream of is possible. Heck, that's the reason why I can inject all the retro stupid that is Jeff Rients' &quot;minor magic items&quot; in his Miscellanium of Cinder into my 3.5 game without wrecking the system's hardwired assumptions as to what magic items (minimally) do. By contrast, try to throw a sword of rat-farting into a 4E treasure parcel, and the system simply won't compute (&quot;##error - hand slot entry: useless&quot;). For 4E does it the other way round than 3.5. The authors of 4E don't ever give you a list of stock effects - just as they don't ever give you a template for building a new class or a new power - and instead feed you all the possible combos they can think of in their books. As a result, 4E books are (a) filled with endless repetitions of the same item over and over and over (20 tomes for the wizard instead of: 1 with a list of customization options) and (b) never once explain to the GM how he can handle the magic item system creatively once he has filled its base expectations.In short, 3.5. respects the GM to tinker with the magic item system as he feels like, whereas 4E books are as opaque on the matter as possible. At least, as far as the gist of their printed output goes, for there's some good advice by Mearls on the issue <a href="http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=215894&amp;postcount=28" target="_blank">online</a>.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Windjammer, post: 5026417, member: 60075"] I'm not sure you're aware of how these items in 3E actually work. The remainder of my post (cross-posted from [URL="http://www.therpgsite.com/showthread.php?t=15942&page=15"]this discussion[/URL]) will address this, and compare it to how this works in 4E. The gist of it is this: The book then presents a table with ca. 30 entries of the stock enhancements that the system presupposes the PCs to acquire from level 1 to 20, complete with appropriate body slot entries for items receiving that enhancement and the price boost of the item receiving the enhancement. What that means is the following. From this point on, the DM can pretty much use, and come up with, any item he finds or can think of, and plaster the system-requirements onto them [I]as an added bonus[/I] to whatever crazy other stuff the items do. The list works such that any combo of "stock effect + crazy stuff" he can dream of is possible. Heck, that's the reason why I can inject all the retro stupid that is Jeff Rients' "minor magic items" in his [I]Miscellanium of Cinder[/I] into my 3.5 game [I]without wrecking the system's hardwired assumptions as to what magic items (minimally) do[/I]. By contrast, try to throw a sword of rat-farting into a 4E treasure parcel, and the system simply [I]won't compute[/I] ("##error - hand slot entry: useless"). For 4E does it the other way round than 3.5. The authors of 4E don't ever give you a list of stock effects - just as they don't ever give you a template for building a new class or a new power - and instead feed you all the possible combos [I]they [/I]can think of in their books. As a result, 4E books are (a) filled with endless repetitions of the same item over and over and over (20 tomes for the wizard instead of: 1 with a list of customization options) and (b) never [I]once [/I]explain to the GM how he can handle the magic item system creatively once he has filled its base expectations. In short, 3.5. respects the GM to tinker with the magic item system as he feels like, whereas 4E books are as opaque on the matter as possible. At least, as far as the gist of their printed output goes, for there's some good advice by Mearls on the issue [URL="http://www.therpgsite.com/showpost.php?p=215894&postcount=28"]online[/URL]. [/QUOTE]

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