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<blockquote data-quote="Chaosmancer" data-source="post: 9332022" data-attributes="member: 6801228"><p>To your first "problem", yes when discussing improving the fighter or the rogue, I've found it is best to start by looking to the fighter and the rogue. I tried it by staring at a blank sheet of paper once, but it didn't give me much insight on how to... improve the fighter or the rogue. </p><p></p><p>As to the your second, um, if the fighter and rogue are outperforming these new classes in "many areas" then... they are just better in combat. Because that's about the only area the fighter is any good in. Specifically in damage. And that isn't a great thing to start stripping from a class.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So, you want to design a class, with somewhere around 6 subclasses (about where most of the classes are at at this point) who is bad at dealing damage, and can't fight at range.... who I presume their use in battle will be controlling the other player characters, and buffing them. </p><p></p><p>So, sure, if you end up being able to make the character make an attack as a reaction, that's pretty nice, but... you are pigeonholing into a single gimmick so hard that you are running a huge risk. That is, if this class isn't better support than the cleric or the bard, then no one is going to take it, unless they are desperate to avoid spells. It is a very niche class. </p><p></p><p>Yes, people want warlords, but I've never seen people say "and they should suck at combat"</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>So bad defense. And again, how many subclasses do you think you can milk out of a class whose gimmick is "bad defense, good offense, but no magic at all". And, since the main competitors for good offense are going to be the fighter, Barbarian and the Paladin who all ALSO are defensive monsters.... this is going to go poorly. </p><p></p><p>Heck, I've seen rogues take over as the tank for a party, because even they get decent defensive abilities.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>This is the single worse idea I've heard for a class. This is the entire Ranger Favored Foe problem, but as a class identity. </p><p></p><p></p><p>You seriously are not selling me on the idea that making more classes is better than just shoring up the weak points in the design on the classes we have.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Chaosmancer, post: 9332022, member: 6801228"] To your first "problem", yes when discussing improving the fighter or the rogue, I've found it is best to start by looking to the fighter and the rogue. I tried it by staring at a blank sheet of paper once, but it didn't give me much insight on how to... improve the fighter or the rogue. As to the your second, um, if the fighter and rogue are outperforming these new classes in "many areas" then... they are just better in combat. Because that's about the only area the fighter is any good in. Specifically in damage. And that isn't a great thing to start stripping from a class. So, you want to design a class, with somewhere around 6 subclasses (about where most of the classes are at at this point) who is bad at dealing damage, and can't fight at range.... who I presume their use in battle will be controlling the other player characters, and buffing them. So, sure, if you end up being able to make the character make an attack as a reaction, that's pretty nice, but... you are pigeonholing into a single gimmick so hard that you are running a huge risk. That is, if this class isn't better support than the cleric or the bard, then no one is going to take it, unless they are desperate to avoid spells. It is a very niche class. Yes, people want warlords, but I've never seen people say "and they should suck at combat" So bad defense. And again, how many subclasses do you think you can milk out of a class whose gimmick is "bad defense, good offense, but no magic at all". And, since the main competitors for good offense are going to be the fighter, Barbarian and the Paladin who all ALSO are defensive monsters.... this is going to go poorly. Heck, I've seen rogues take over as the tank for a party, because even they get decent defensive abilities. This is the single worse idea I've heard for a class. This is the entire Ranger Favored Foe problem, but as a class identity. You seriously are not selling me on the idea that making more classes is better than just shoring up the weak points in the design on the classes we have. [/QUOTE]
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