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<blockquote data-quote="I'm A Banana" data-source="post: 9334434" data-attributes="member: 2067"><p>The distinction I'm making is between playing a game where I play a writer, and playing a game where I play a character. These are distinct methods of play, with different kinds of fun in them. When I play D&D, I want to play a character - for me, ROLE PLAYING suggests that element of it, and it's an element I really enjoy. A role playing game isn't the same kind of experience as a storytelling game.</p><p></p><p>If the game says a Champion's ability to stab a dragon with a sword comes from being JUST THAT SKILLED AND WELL TRAINED (which aligns with the current narrative I believe), then I am in. I can play a character with superhuman skill and training. We're not pretending to be realistic, here. I'm stabbin' dragons.</p><p></p><p>If the game says a Champion's ability to not die when bitten by a dragon comes from them being a PC and PC's being the heroes of the story and that heroes don't die from measly dragon bites, then that takes me out of it. My Champion doesn't know she's a PC in a game. I do, but part of the goal of play for me when I am playing a character is to get into that character's head space. That's part of the fun. A game mechanic that relies on coming out of the character's head and into the headspace of a game-player or writer is running counter to that fun.</p><p></p><p>This is a useful way to discuss "how to be Batman in D&D" because if the designers were to come at it by saying "You have 1 Plot Point you can spend to have the right invention to solve this problem," that would be a pretty bad experience for me. But if the designers were to come at it by saying "Here's some tools you can build, pick X at the start of the day to equip on your utility belt" that's more in the character's headspace. That gets me thinking like Batman thinks - planning and researching. That also introduces the element of failure, and ramps up the fun - there's consequences to my actions now! Stakes!</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I mean, what was that person trying to actually argue? That Batman is an unrealistic power fantasy? Yes, I think this is not something that we have any serious disagreements over.</p><p></p><p>Were they trying to argue that because Batman is unrealistic, that playing a Batman-esque character in D&D shouldn't be supported? Because not only are unrealistic power fantasies things that are pretty core to D&D, it already IS supported. That person would just be wrong.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>"Completely mundane" is easily confusable for "realistic." As "mundane" as they are, they are by no means "realistic."</p><p></p><p>A useful point of comparison: Saitama, aka One Punch Man.</p><p></p><p>Saitama's powers are "completely mundane." He did a year and a half of 100 daily push-ups, sit-ups, and squats, plus 10km daily running. That's the source of his power. Now when he punches, he can destroy mountains.</p><p></p><p>Saitama's powers aren't meant to be seen as realistic. Neither are Batman's. Neither is a D&D character's. They're all fantastical, super-normal, <em>supernatural</em>, if you will. Batman could never exist in the real world. It's as unrealistic as punches destroying mountains.</p><p></p><p>I can't exactly play Saitama in D&D today (though I could definitely see a path to it...), but I can play a character who does 100 burpees and pull ups every day for a year and eats a purely vegan diet and can then slay giants with a sword.</p><p></p><p>Their powers would be completely mundane, and diegetically, they'd be just a normal person who did some intense training. The capabilities of this character would be distinctly unrealistic, though.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="I'm A Banana, post: 9334434, member: 2067"] The distinction I'm making is between playing a game where I play a writer, and playing a game where I play a character. These are distinct methods of play, with different kinds of fun in them. When I play D&D, I want to play a character - for me, ROLE PLAYING suggests that element of it, and it's an element I really enjoy. A role playing game isn't the same kind of experience as a storytelling game. If the game says a Champion's ability to stab a dragon with a sword comes from being JUST THAT SKILLED AND WELL TRAINED (which aligns with the current narrative I believe), then I am in. I can play a character with superhuman skill and training. We're not pretending to be realistic, here. I'm stabbin' dragons. If the game says a Champion's ability to not die when bitten by a dragon comes from them being a PC and PC's being the heroes of the story and that heroes don't die from measly dragon bites, then that takes me out of it. My Champion doesn't know she's a PC in a game. I do, but part of the goal of play for me when I am playing a character is to get into that character's head space. That's part of the fun. A game mechanic that relies on coming out of the character's head and into the headspace of a game-player or writer is running counter to that fun. This is a useful way to discuss "how to be Batman in D&D" because if the designers were to come at it by saying "You have 1 Plot Point you can spend to have the right invention to solve this problem," that would be a pretty bad experience for me. But if the designers were to come at it by saying "Here's some tools you can build, pick X at the start of the day to equip on your utility belt" that's more in the character's headspace. That gets me thinking like Batman thinks - planning and researching. That also introduces the element of failure, and ramps up the fun - there's consequences to my actions now! Stakes! I mean, what was that person trying to actually argue? That Batman is an unrealistic power fantasy? Yes, I think this is not something that we have any serious disagreements over. Were they trying to argue that because Batman is unrealistic, that playing a Batman-esque character in D&D shouldn't be supported? Because not only are unrealistic power fantasies things that are pretty core to D&D, it already IS supported. That person would just be wrong. "Completely mundane" is easily confusable for "realistic." As "mundane" as they are, they are by no means "realistic." A useful point of comparison: Saitama, aka One Punch Man. Saitama's powers are "completely mundane." He did a year and a half of 100 daily push-ups, sit-ups, and squats, plus 10km daily running. That's the source of his power. Now when he punches, he can destroy mountains. Saitama's powers aren't meant to be seen as realistic. Neither are Batman's. Neither is a D&D character's. They're all fantastical, super-normal, [I]supernatural[/I], if you will. Batman could never exist in the real world. It's as unrealistic as punches destroying mountains. I can't exactly play Saitama in D&D today (though I could definitely see a path to it...), but I can play a character who does 100 burpees and pull ups every day for a year and eats a purely vegan diet and can then slay giants with a sword. Their powers would be completely mundane, and diegetically, they'd be just a normal person who did some intense training. The capabilities of this character would be distinctly unrealistic, though. [/QUOTE]
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