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<blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9334454" data-attributes="member: 72555"><p>Are we assuming the universe has people who have properties like humans in real life?</p><p></p><p>Batman being able to stab the feet of a speedster because "they must not be phased out". Speedsters, whose reaction time is such that they experience time 10000x slower than anyone else. Just, as it happens, this time they aren't.</p><p></p><p>[MEDIA=reddit]FlashTV/comments/kvo04p[/MEDIA]</p><p></p><p>Reality warping. He's interacting with something that is completely out of scope for a human being to be able to handle. And wins, because nonsense reasons.</p><p></p><p>In a game like D&D, that is like fighting something who gets to take 10000 turns for every turn you take. Whenever you do an action after deciding to do it and saying what it is, they get to do 200 turns first, then you try your action. And you win, because ... reasons.</p><p></p><p>It isn't inherit to being a fictional character. It is inherit to being a fictional character <strong>with plot armor</strong>. Not all fictional characters have such plot armor, but such plot armor is (from a stimulationist standpoint) supernatural.</p><p></p><p>If you want to have a game (like D&D) with any vestige of simulationism where someone can do things like batman, you can't go "ok, you can do what a human being can realistically do". You literally have to do "reality warps itself around your character to make what you try to do work" or something similar. If this is an identity-insertion game (like D&D tends to be, where you have one character in the game), the either the player+character has to have abilities far beyond a human being would have, or a 3rd party (maybe the rules, the referee/DM, or someone else) has to explicitly bend the simulated reality to aid the character's actions.</p><p></p><p>You can see this "plot armor superpower" lampshaded in the "Gwenpool" series from Marvel. She's a comic book fan who is dropped into the Marvel universe. Realising that the rules of comic book narration apply, she dresses herself up as a super hero and tries to be sufficiently popular that she won't be harmed by the antics she engages in. Her super powers are literally "understanding narration" and "knows a lot about the comic book world because she was a big fan". As an example, she uses flashbacks to be a "scarlet witch level reality bender", and is generally aware when she starts a new mini series and how her survivability depends on being popular.</p><p></p><p>So, on the topic of "the magical martial", if you want batman <strong>you need to add reality bending powers to the PC</strong>, because the plausible range of outcomes from a game simulating "highly skilled human" doesn't include batman without adding insane plot armor; what more, plot armor specific to him, and not to his enemies and allies.</p><p></p><p>I'm ok with this. We can give non-spellcasters plot tokens that they can use to rewrite reality.</p><p></p><p>The other option is to throw out the idea that you are simulating anything anywhere close to a normal human. You pretend that jumping 1000' is something you can do by practicing really hard (or whatever). Nothing magical about it. That is <strong>supernatural</strong> but you pretend it isn't by closing your eyes and saying "I don't hear you", but it also works.</p><p></p><p>In that case, you have the <strong>supernatural</strong> but <strong>not magical</strong> martial. It has things that are insanely off the charts inhuman, they aren't just coded as magical, so you pretend they aren't. Your character can literally lift up a castle by grabbing its corner, but that is just because they worked out regularly, not for any magical reason.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="NotAYakk, post: 9334454, member: 72555"] Are we assuming the universe has people who have properties like humans in real life? Batman being able to stab the feet of a speedster because "they must not be phased out". Speedsters, whose reaction time is such that they experience time 10000x slower than anyone else. Just, as it happens, this time they aren't. [MEDIA=reddit]FlashTV/comments/kvo04p[/MEDIA] Reality warping. He's interacting with something that is completely out of scope for a human being to be able to handle. And wins, because nonsense reasons. In a game like D&D, that is like fighting something who gets to take 10000 turns for every turn you take. Whenever you do an action after deciding to do it and saying what it is, they get to do 200 turns first, then you try your action. And you win, because ... reasons. It isn't inherit to being a fictional character. It is inherit to being a fictional character [B]with plot armor[/B]. Not all fictional characters have such plot armor, but such plot armor is (from a stimulationist standpoint) supernatural. If you want to have a game (like D&D) with any vestige of simulationism where someone can do things like batman, you can't go "ok, you can do what a human being can realistically do". You literally have to do "reality warps itself around your character to make what you try to do work" or something similar. If this is an identity-insertion game (like D&D tends to be, where you have one character in the game), the either the player+character has to have abilities far beyond a human being would have, or a 3rd party (maybe the rules, the referee/DM, or someone else) has to explicitly bend the simulated reality to aid the character's actions. You can see this "plot armor superpower" lampshaded in the "Gwenpool" series from Marvel. She's a comic book fan who is dropped into the Marvel universe. Realising that the rules of comic book narration apply, she dresses herself up as a super hero and tries to be sufficiently popular that she won't be harmed by the antics she engages in. Her super powers are literally "understanding narration" and "knows a lot about the comic book world because she was a big fan". As an example, she uses flashbacks to be a "scarlet witch level reality bender", and is generally aware when she starts a new mini series and how her survivability depends on being popular. So, on the topic of "the magical martial", if you want batman [B]you need to add reality bending powers to the PC[/B], because the plausible range of outcomes from a game simulating "highly skilled human" doesn't include batman without adding insane plot armor; what more, plot armor specific to him, and not to his enemies and allies. I'm ok with this. We can give non-spellcasters plot tokens that they can use to rewrite reality. The other option is to throw out the idea that you are simulating anything anywhere close to a normal human. You pretend that jumping 1000' is something you can do by practicing really hard (or whatever). Nothing magical about it. That is [B]supernatural[/B] but you pretend it isn't by closing your eyes and saying "I don't hear you", but it also works. In that case, you have the [b]supernatural[/b] but [b]not magical[/b] martial. It has things that are insanely off the charts inhuman, they aren't just coded as magical, so you pretend they aren't. Your character can literally lift up a castle by grabbing its corner, but that is just because they worked out regularly, not for any magical reason. [/QUOTE]
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