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Message: <blockquote data-quote="ECMO3" data-source="post: 9335910" data-attributes="member: 7030563">And rolling a charisma check with a 10 Charisma and no proficiency is perfectly fine too.  A 10 Charisma with proficiency is not considered "good" at the social pillar though.  Similarly your character is not good at the combat pillar.To take this further, the guy making a Charisma check with a 10 is more likely to have a bigger impact on a social encounter than someone doing 3 DPR is going to have on a fight at 3rd level.   A 10 Charisma with no proficiency is closer to the best possible high Charisma build than Ray of Frost is to the best possible DPR build.If you want to use spells to be good at all 3 pillars you need enough spells known and enough slots to be good at all 3 pillars, and I use Charisma regularly on days with lots of fights.Are there days where you know you might not be fighting?  Sure there are, but not many and there are very few days where you know you will be fighting but not making any Charisma checks.The point is to be good at all 3 pillars.  Not good at combat one day and good at the social pillar the next.Yes, just like those fighters could be good if they do not insist on investing in strength.  That is the whole point.A character of ANY class can be awesome at ANY pillar with the right investment and build using all the RAW options available.  A character of any class can be good (but not necessarily awesome) at all 3 pillars with the right investment andFor a Figher or a Wizard, or most classes, taking a 16 Constitution is not consistent with that "right investment" if you want to be good at all three pillars.  If you take a 16 in point buy you are intentionally weakening your character in 2 of the three pillars of the game.A front line fighter is not going to take as much damage as a Wizard with no armor, no defensive spells and a 10 dexterity.   Armor class matters a lot in terms of damage taken.I have played numerous front line fighters with a 12 or below Constitution, I have played them at all kinds of levels, I have played them all the way to 20th level.  I have only ever played one fighter with a 14 Constitution on point buy, and never any higher than that.  I have never had a fighter die in 5E.  I have had other classes, including a Wizard die.For example if an enemy has a +4 attack bonus and the front line fighter has a 18 (mediocre for a front liner) and the Wizard a 10, the Wizard will take 2.5 times more damage per time he is attacked.  That is without even dodging.  The fighter will presumably be attacked more, but not that much more.Because it is the only abiity that offers almost nothing at all to the social and exploration pillars and while it does boost the combat pillar, it does not boost it a lot compared to the investment you need to make.Also to be Clear a Rogue, Ranger or Bard can be even with a 16 Constitution.  The moment you cast a spell yes.  They will even take AOOs to do this if needed. On you and it is over 50%, since they have a +6 stealth.Being prepared does not negate surprise.No they only kill one before the others all attack you.You can not use magic missile on an enemy you can't see.  You can use Ray of Frost .... with disadvantage .... for 1 damage on average.Sure, now your AC is effectively a 12, they need an 8 and they have advantage to hit you.  You know if you had shield or were in mage armor or had a dex bonus this might actually be significant.You are in no armor and you are casting spells and concentrating fire is the right tacNo it takes you 4 rounds to kill one.  I am assuming your allies downed one, maybe with the help from your average 1 point of damage with Ray of Frost.Sure, tell me where you are going to use it in the cave system or in the Redbrands.RAW no you can't.  Making a skill check is an action.Using passive nature you may know what it is.Rules Lawyering against the Wizard I will point out .... but RAW none the less.There is a reason the eyesight on Find Familiar only lasts a turn unless you are a Warlock with an invocation and it is explicitly to prevent this.Also as you pointed out you don't need a check to do something simple, but if it is there is a plant over by door, exampling a plant to see if you knew what it was would require an action concentrating on it, not something you just notice just by walking by.  TBH if you were looking at it through an Arcane Eye where you could do the check I still might pose disadvantage because you can't touch it, smell it or taste it as you might otherwise do on such a check, unless there was a specific visual cue that would give it away.Yes I think he would slaughter the goblins with little problem ... even with a 10 constitution.You are forgetting about second wind and action surge.Now go scroll back all through this thread and I said point buy quite a bit.No, but it is a safe bet I can get it between every time I decide to use the dice.  A lot safer than you will only need to use 2 or 3 spells to be good.Because I am purposely building a character to be good at the social pillar and I do not typically need to use any in combat because the fighter has so much on its base chassis.Considering second wind, a typical 1st level fighter will need to be hit 3 times with a 10 Constitution, has a much higher AC and will not be targeted as much.I did not say I had 16 Charisma and 16 Wisdom.</blockquote>

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