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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 7037866" data-source="post: 9335931">Yes, Ogres and Trolls are very strong, and their average Strength given in their stat block of 19 and 18 is extremely impressive. The Ogre, due to its size as well as Strength 19, can lift 1,140 lbs at a maximum (barring any sort of ability check to exceed their limits). Although this is possible for the average Ogre, it is also well within the capabilities of humans.[ATTACH=full]361550[/ATTACH]In fact, the 1,210 lbs exceeds what a human can do with a STR 20.However, I think you'll find an Ogre or Troll cannot burst through a stone wall... A stone wall has AC 17 and is (at least) a Large resilient object with about 27 hit points. Neither has anything like Athletics to help with a Strength check, so all they have is a +4 to the roll if you want to do a check instead of "attacks and damage".I'd love to meet a single player IRL who "wants spellcasters to be superior"... I've never, in any edition, met such a player. Then again, I've yet to met a single player IRL who's complained the feel their martials is being overshadowed by any casters. The whole argument seems strange to me.Huh? I wonder how.... I mean, I've seen monster who have the Siege Monster trait do such things, but that's it.</blockquote>