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Message: <blockquote data-quote="NotAYakk" data-source="post: 9340515" data-attributes="member: 72555">The problem with the lack of a supernatural power source for Rogues and Fighters, in my experience is that their abilities barring explicit text saying otherwise in the rules are limited by the DM to be what they imagine a normal human being could do in the real world.If there is a mechanic saying "with a roll of 7 or higher on a d20 you can hit the dragon and do an average of 72 damage", then that is explicit text that allows the PC to do that.  If there is a mechanic saying "falling 500' does 20d6 damage, which you can halve with a reaction", then the PC is allowed to do that.Meanwhile, if there isn't a mechanic that says "with an athletics check you can pick up the 20' statue and throw it 100'", then you can't do it.  Because no human could do it.The 5e mechanics around picking up and throwing things that do exist don't cover what athletics checks can let you do - it is left vague.  Without the athletics check, even a huge-sized (rune knight, growth potion) double-lift capacity (bear totem or equivalent) 27 strength human is limited to a few tonnes, which is far less than a 20' tall stone statue.There lacks any in-world explanation why the Fighter can hit a 30 tonne dragon and do significant damage to it.  Because this in-world explanation is missing, the Fighter cannot leverage that missing in-world explanation to do other wonderous abilities not tied to the explicit mechanics in the game.The 5e PC has no game text that they can use to convince the DM their PC is capable of super-heroic feats, nor any game text that tell them they should be able to perform those super-heroic feats.5e completely abandoned players who want that kind of fictional support.If you look back at 4e, at least the paragon paths and the epic destinies provided some mechanical and fictional support for why a PC should be able to do super-human tasks.  Even the skill check rules talked about super-human acts, and the bonuses that high level PCs got brought them up to being able to reliably do those super-human acts.5e explicitly stripped all of that out.So we end up with these fighter PCs who are, at many tables, no better than a fit 20 year old athlete at most tasks, except they are inhumanly good at hitting things with pointy sticks, and inhumanly durable, because those two things are mechanically supported.</blockquote>

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