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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Guest 7037866" data-source="post: 9341841">The problem with lowering the DCs is they become too easy IMO. Now, I get your point, the +11 (normal maximum) sucks for DC 30, but again this is a flaw in WotC's design to me.Expertise, for example, should be available to all classes (at a cost of two skills for expertise in one, but Rogues and Bards get it "for free"). This way, a Fighter could choose to take Expertise in whatever "lifting skill" you want to use, bringing the bonus up to +17, which makes "triple lifts" (DC 25) fairly likely, and "quad lifts" (DC 30) still a reasonable chance. After all, at this point, that is double the current world record in real life. Which, for me, is about as "strong" as I want a martial to be. Such a PC could lift a 1000 lbs Ogre by making a DC 20 "double lift" 90% (3 or better) of the time.Personally, such a system is acceptable to me, and could apply towards other acts of physical prowess. The same DCs could be applied to jump distances (allowing a STR 20 PC to jump up to 80 feet!), or even "sprinting", moving a x4 speed for the turn, doubled again to x8 taking the Dash action. At base 30 speed, that would be 240 feet in the turn (6 seconds), which is faster than humanly possible IRL, about an 8.2 second 100-meter sprint. Include other things like Mobile, and it is even faster.Combined with other features which double lifting, add to base speeds, allow further jumps, etc. it would be a simple system which easily enhances martials physical abilities beyond real-life humans, but not beyond the realm of plausibility in a fantasy world/game, at least to my mind, via training, etc.EDIT: Just adding some numbers as examples:20th-level Goliath Bear Totem Barbarian with Expertise in "Lifting skill" and STR 24 (20+Primal Champion) and unlimited Rages.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Normal Maximum Lift: 2,880 lbs. (24 x 30 x 2 goliath x 2 bear totem)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strength ("lifting skill") bonus = +19 (+7 STR, +12 expertise)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DC 30 requires 11 or better, with advantage from Rage is 75% for success.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This quadruples max lift to 11,520 lbs!</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Doubling would be automatic since the DC is 20.</li> </ul>Such a check might require the PC's action maybe? This way the PC couldn't just lift 5,760 lbs all the time...At a more reasonable level, say 10th:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Normal Maximum Lift: 2,400 lbs. (20 x 30 x 2 x 2)</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Strength check bonus +13 (+5 STR, +8 expertise) </li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">DC 25 requires 12 or better, lowering the Rage chances to about 70%.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">This triples lift to 7,200 lbs, or 62% of what the 20th-level scenario could do!</li> </ul>Make Powerful Build something available via a Feat, so you wouldn't be tied into Goliath or similar races.Fighters have options through various subclasses to gain advantage on the checks as well.</blockquote>

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