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<blockquote data-quote="Charlaquin" data-source="post: 8333637" data-attributes="member: 6779196"><p>I agree that dungeon crawling is not how the game is typically played any more. But it is what 5e was designed around. In the backlash to 4e there was a heavy push to bring the game back to its roots, and the adventures that 5e were playtested with (Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, and an original adventure set in Blingdenstone) reflected this.</p><p></p><p>Now, to bring this back around to the topic, 5e’s explosion in popularity brought in new players who weren’t as interested in this old-school delve style of play, which is what has lead to this disconnect people experience between the way the game was designed and the way they want to use it.</p><p></p><p>That’s not what it says at all. It says a party of 3-5 characters <em>can handle</em> about 6-8 medium or hard encounters with 2 short rests in-between. If you want to push the characters to the point where they’re at risk of dying, then yeah, you’ve got to give them about as much as they can handle, and maybe even a bit more. Of course, if you’re not looking to run a super deadly challenge, the game works absolutely fine with different parameters.</p><p></p><p>Not at all! If the players can’t find (or make) an opportunity to get the rest they need, that just forces them into a difficult position where they have to make some tough choices. That’s… kind of the hallmark of this style of play.</p><p></p><p>Making resource recovery a meta-game resource like 13A does certainly foolproofs resource recovery. That’s actually a drawback in my opinion, as it takes the agency to break those expectations away from the players and the GM. I do agree though that 4e was more transparent about how it’s encounter design worked (something 5e playtesters actually <em>railed against</em>!) and harder to mess up thanks to the 5-minute short rest. Which also appeared in 5e playtesting, and got shot down. Playesters didn’t want players to be able to count on being able to get a short rest (for some reason).</p><p></p><p>It’s also not really what 5e recommends. 6-8 discrete medium and hard encounters with exactly 2 short rests is an overly literal and rigid interpretation of what’s written as a general guideline of how much the average party can handle.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Charlaquin, post: 8333637, member: 6779196"] I agree that dungeon crawling is not how the game is typically played any more. But it is what 5e was designed around. In the backlash to 4e there was a heavy push to bring the game back to its roots, and the adventures that 5e were playtested with (Keep on the Borderlands, Isle of Dread, and an original adventure set in Blingdenstone) reflected this. Now, to bring this back around to the topic, 5e’s explosion in popularity brought in new players who weren’t as interested in this old-school delve style of play, which is what has lead to this disconnect people experience between the way the game was designed and the way they want to use it. That’s not what it says at all. It says a party of 3-5 characters [I]can handle[/I] about 6-8 medium or hard encounters with 2 short rests in-between. If you want to push the characters to the point where they’re at risk of dying, then yeah, you’ve got to give them about as much as they can handle, and maybe even a bit more. Of course, if you’re not looking to run a super deadly challenge, the game works absolutely fine with different parameters. Not at all! If the players can’t find (or make) an opportunity to get the rest they need, that just forces them into a difficult position where they have to make some tough choices. That’s… kind of the hallmark of this style of play. Making resource recovery a meta-game resource like 13A does certainly foolproofs resource recovery. That’s actually a drawback in my opinion, as it takes the agency to break those expectations away from the players and the GM. I do agree though that 4e was more transparent about how it’s encounter design worked (something 5e playtesters actually [I]railed against[/I]!) and harder to mess up thanks to the 5-minute short rest. Which also appeared in 5e playtesting, and got shot down. Playesters didn’t want players to be able to count on being able to get a short rest (for some reason). It’s also not really what 5e recommends. 6-8 discrete medium and hard encounters with exactly 2 short rests is an overly literal and rigid interpretation of what’s written as a general guideline of how much the average party can handle. [/QUOTE]
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