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The Making and Breaking of Deities & Demigods
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<blockquote data-quote="maceochaid" data-source="post: 7612175" data-attributes="member: 6789608"><p>Yaarel, I want to agree 100% with what you said.</p><p></p><p>However I also want to pose an idea.</p><p></p><p>With this debate I am interested in how DnD 5E has decided in the Player's Handbooks and descriptions of Cleric Domains to only include those religions that are both European and accepted broadly by our culture as part of European literature and not living religions (Neo-Pagans my apologies).</p><p></p><p>Jim Ward did make mistakes in his treatment of American Indian and Far East Pantheons (as Yaarel and I have both pointed out there are inaccuracies in his Norse and Celtic representations as well as his Native American and Far Eastern religions). However there is some value in making his book represent Fantasy as being able to be MORE than the standard European world. </p><p></p><p>He did so also based on research and at least a value of accuracy, even if his scholarship may have ultimately failed some of the groups represented. I think this could still be a document useful in imagining a future of RPG's that don't rely on European fantasy tropes, without relegating people of color to strange vague Orientalist/Primativism trope mash ups, rather than accuracy, (here I am thinking of 4E's Primal Spirits oscillating between fantasy Vikings and Native Americans, like how the Dothraki of Game of Thrones are Mongolian-ish). </p><p></p><p>Ward in some ways opens himself up to crticism because he tried something bold, but we might want to be careful before a primarily white produced and designed product responds to these challenges solely by avoiding the project altogether and retreat into the safety of only Hamilton/Bullfinch/D'aulaires. How to reapproach this topic should be done with care and thought, but while Ward wasn't perfect, and we do need to be sure we are doing better, he was attempting something admirable, including in his fantasy more than just white European cultures.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="maceochaid, post: 7612175, member: 6789608"] Yaarel, I want to agree 100% with what you said. However I also want to pose an idea. With this debate I am interested in how DnD 5E has decided in the Player's Handbooks and descriptions of Cleric Domains to only include those religions that are both European and accepted broadly by our culture as part of European literature and not living religions (Neo-Pagans my apologies). Jim Ward did make mistakes in his treatment of American Indian and Far East Pantheons (as Yaarel and I have both pointed out there are inaccuracies in his Norse and Celtic representations as well as his Native American and Far Eastern religions). However there is some value in making his book represent Fantasy as being able to be MORE than the standard European world. He did so also based on research and at least a value of accuracy, even if his scholarship may have ultimately failed some of the groups represented. I think this could still be a document useful in imagining a future of RPG's that don't rely on European fantasy tropes, without relegating people of color to strange vague Orientalist/Primativism trope mash ups, rather than accuracy, (here I am thinking of 4E's Primal Spirits oscillating between fantasy Vikings and Native Americans, like how the Dothraki of Game of Thrones are Mongolian-ish). Ward in some ways opens himself up to crticism because he tried something bold, but we might want to be careful before a primarily white produced and designed product responds to these challenges solely by avoiding the project altogether and retreat into the safety of only Hamilton/Bullfinch/D'aulaires. How to reapproach this topic should be done with care and thought, but while Ward wasn't perfect, and we do need to be sure we are doing better, he was attempting something admirable, including in his fantasy more than just white European cultures. [/QUOTE]
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