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The Making and Breaking of Deities & Demigods
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<blockquote data-quote="JLowder" data-source="post: 9303641" data-attributes="member: 28003"><p>You may be putting too much emphasis on "immediately," which in 1970s and early 1980s publishing terms meant a printing or two, so at least a few months, likely longer. Remember, when the original book was published, printers were using printing plates for each page, likely metal but eventually plastic, and those had to be remade, at a cost, for every page with every change to a book. So changes within a published book were often a slow, laborious--and expensive--process between printings and editions.</p><p></p><p>The basics on all this are pretty much uncontested:</p><p></p><p>* TSR and Chaosium reportedly both had permission from Arkham House for the Cthulhu Mythos and from the Moorcocks or their agent for the Elric material.</p><p></p><p>* Jim Ward never plagiarized anything for <em>Deities</em>, and anyone who accuses him of that is simply wrong. He acted in good faith throughout. He thought he had clear title to use the material, based on the permissions he had secured.</p><p></p><p>* TSR got to print first with <em>Deities</em>, but Chaosium claimed to have signed and exclusive deals for RPGs, deals that overrode any permissions TSR had lined up.</p><p></p><p>* Chaosium did not sue. They sent a letter claiming they had clear, exclusive rights, and made an offer to work out a solution with TSR. (A copy of this letter is reportedly still in the Chaosium archives, along with the signed agreements with Arkham House and Michael Moorcock. The TSR archives, as inherited by WotC, seem to be missing whatever permissions they had obtained, but that doesn't mean Ward never got the letters he claimed to have received. TSR was terrible about record keeping, even by the 1980s.)</p><p></p><p>* The (positive) solution they arrived at was for TSR to run the "with permission" language. Chaosium reportedly did not ask for any money, just the credit line. This was in keeping with what Michael Moorcock wanted to see, which was cooperation between the companies.</p><p></p><p>* TSR ran the line for a time, before someone at TSR (reportedly ones of the Blumes) got annoyed at "promoting" a rival company and pulled the content and the line.</p><p></p><p>The contested part is who had clear permission. Without the documents, it's impossible to say.</p><p></p><p>Had the matter gone to court at the time, it likely would have been quite simple to prove what rights each company had. Produce the contracts and/or the permission letters. Which was dated earlier? If one granted exclusive rights, it could have superceded the earlier, looser permision letters, but it would depend upon the contracts and letters. Not really all that complicated.</p><p></p><p>If there were any lawsuits, they would most likely have been TSR and Chaosium suing Arkham House and the Moorcocks over granting conflicting rights, which would have been incredibly destructive for all parties and bad for the fledgling RPG industry. Full licensing contracts like the ones Chaosium used at the time and still use typically include clauses wherein the Author/IP Owner states they have not entered into agreements that conflict with the rights granted in the licensing deal, and those clauses would have kicked in here. Licensing contracts also typically include indemnification clauses that make the Author/IP Owner responsible for any damages that result from conflicting rights granted, if it turns out they had granted conflicting rights. So even if TSR had sued Chaosium, claiming they had earlier letters granting permission, the costs to Chaosium still would have likely fallen on Arkham House and the Moorcocks through the indemnification clauses.</p><p></p><p>There were also conflicting rights granted by Fritz Leiber to both publishers for the Lankhmar material. Chaosium had reportedly secured an exclusive rights license for that IP, too.</p><p></p><p>Looking back at what was published, the companies hammered out a great solution. Chaosium was planning full games built around the Cthulhu Mythos and the Elric material, which went ahead with no additional conflict between the publishers. TSR was planning a lot more material with Lankhmar, so that went ahead with no interference from Chaosium. They split the difference on <em>Deities & Demigods</em> and used the "with permission" line, which TSR management was, frankly, silly to eventually reject. Even so, the companies later worked out IP sharing for the <em>Thieves' World </em>material, so the solutions cited above seem to have been pretty constructive and amicable. That read of the situation is supported by what was published after the conflicting permissions came to light and how it was published.</p><p></p><p>So all the chatter about massive fights between the companies and lawsuits and the rest pretty much ignore what the publishing record shows--two companies discovered, after the publication of <em>Deities</em>, they had competing permissions on three important IPs and worked it out, with no courts involved, in a way that benefited all parties. And as Jim rightly noted, and was rightly angry about, he never plagiarized anything in <em>Deities</em> or willfully overstepped the rights he thought he had secured.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="JLowder, post: 9303641, member: 28003"] You may be putting too much emphasis on "immediately," which in 1970s and early 1980s publishing terms meant a printing or two, so at least a few months, likely longer. Remember, when the original book was published, printers were using printing plates for each page, likely metal but eventually plastic, and those had to be remade, at a cost, for every page with every change to a book. So changes within a published book were often a slow, laborious--and expensive--process between printings and editions. The basics on all this are pretty much uncontested: * TSR and Chaosium reportedly both had permission from Arkham House for the Cthulhu Mythos and from the Moorcocks or their agent for the Elric material. * Jim Ward never plagiarized anything for [I]Deities[/I], and anyone who accuses him of that is simply wrong. He acted in good faith throughout. He thought he had clear title to use the material, based on the permissions he had secured. * TSR got to print first with [I]Deities[/I], but Chaosium claimed to have signed and exclusive deals for RPGs, deals that overrode any permissions TSR had lined up. * Chaosium did not sue. They sent a letter claiming they had clear, exclusive rights, and made an offer to work out a solution with TSR. (A copy of this letter is reportedly still in the Chaosium archives, along with the signed agreements with Arkham House and Michael Moorcock. The TSR archives, as inherited by WotC, seem to be missing whatever permissions they had obtained, but that doesn't mean Ward never got the letters he claimed to have received. TSR was terrible about record keeping, even by the 1980s.) * The (positive) solution they arrived at was for TSR to run the "with permission" language. Chaosium reportedly did not ask for any money, just the credit line. This was in keeping with what Michael Moorcock wanted to see, which was cooperation between the companies. * TSR ran the line for a time, before someone at TSR (reportedly ones of the Blumes) got annoyed at "promoting" a rival company and pulled the content and the line. The contested part is who had clear permission. Without the documents, it's impossible to say. Had the matter gone to court at the time, it likely would have been quite simple to prove what rights each company had. Produce the contracts and/or the permission letters. Which was dated earlier? If one granted exclusive rights, it could have superceded the earlier, looser permision letters, but it would depend upon the contracts and letters. Not really all that complicated. If there were any lawsuits, they would most likely have been TSR and Chaosium suing Arkham House and the Moorcocks over granting conflicting rights, which would have been incredibly destructive for all parties and bad for the fledgling RPG industry. Full licensing contracts like the ones Chaosium used at the time and still use typically include clauses wherein the Author/IP Owner states they have not entered into agreements that conflict with the rights granted in the licensing deal, and those clauses would have kicked in here. Licensing contracts also typically include indemnification clauses that make the Author/IP Owner responsible for any damages that result from conflicting rights granted, if it turns out they had granted conflicting rights. So even if TSR had sued Chaosium, claiming they had earlier letters granting permission, the costs to Chaosium still would have likely fallen on Arkham House and the Moorcocks through the indemnification clauses. There were also conflicting rights granted by Fritz Leiber to both publishers for the Lankhmar material. Chaosium had reportedly secured an exclusive rights license for that IP, too. Looking back at what was published, the companies hammered out a great solution. Chaosium was planning full games built around the Cthulhu Mythos and the Elric material, which went ahead with no additional conflict between the publishers. TSR was planning a lot more material with Lankhmar, so that went ahead with no interference from Chaosium. They split the difference on [I]Deities & Demigods[/I] and used the "with permission" line, which TSR management was, frankly, silly to eventually reject. Even so, the companies later worked out IP sharing for the [I]Thieves' World [/I]material, so the solutions cited above seem to have been pretty constructive and amicable. That read of the situation is supported by what was published after the conflicting permissions came to light and how it was published. So all the chatter about massive fights between the companies and lawsuits and the rest pretty much ignore what the publishing record shows--two companies discovered, after the publication of [I]Deities[/I], they had competing permissions on three important IPs and worked it out, with no courts involved, in a way that benefited all parties. And as Jim rightly noted, and was rightly angry about, he never plagiarized anything in [I]Deities[/I] or willfully overstepped the rights he thought he had secured. [/QUOTE]
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