Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="overgeeked" data-source="post: 8649337" data-attributes="member: 86653">Sure. I hadn't gotten to that bit. I was reacting to the &quot;player controlled&quot; part of your post. To me, that's an absolute non-starter. There's zero chance that will not be abused. Either the DM has control over it or it will be exploited.Right. So not entirely player controlled, there's DM input and the DM retains final say. Because if you don't, the players will abuse it. That group decision part makes me think the players would simply agree to never reject any goal so they'd have an easier time of getting their goals through.Same. But most players' view of games and my view of games are generally wildly different. I view games as a fun, distracting past time to engage the imagination and while away a few hours dreaming and pretending...the vast majority of players I've ever played with seem to view RPGs as a death match of players vs the DM and the rules wherein the player tries to wring every last drop of benefit and perk they possibly can, twist language into knots, and argue until they're blue in the face to win, win, win, and win. That's literally the opposite of how I view games. I've yet to meet a single player in real life who takes my approach. When I mention this lots of people online say they're way more interested in playing and having fun...yet there are whole forums and subforums dedicated to &quot;winning&quot; RPGs in various ways...and maybe the occasional post about just relaxing and having fun.To me that's pie-in-the-sky thinking. It's a Platonic Ideal but it's impossible in reality. They just won't.If I only ever played with people who didn't try to exploit every loophole and game the system, I'd never get to play. Ever. Getting close to 40 years playing RPGs and there's always several in every group, more often than not all of the players do that.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="overgeeked, post: 8649337, member: 86653"] Sure. I hadn't gotten to that bit. I was reacting to the "player controlled" part of your post. To me, that's an absolute non-starter. There's zero chance that will not be abused. Either the DM has control over it or it will be exploited. Right. So not entirely player controlled, there's DM input and the DM retains final say. Because if you don't, the players will abuse it. That group decision part makes me think the players would simply agree to never reject any goal so they'd have an easier time of getting their goals through. Same. But most players' view of games and my view of games are generally wildly different. I view games as a fun, distracting past time to engage the imagination and while away a few hours dreaming and pretending...the vast majority of players I've ever played with seem to view RPGs as a death match of players vs the DM and the rules wherein the player tries to wring every last drop of benefit and perk they possibly can, twist language into knots, and argue until they're blue in the face to win, win, win, and win. That's literally the opposite of how I view games. I've yet to meet a single player in real life who takes my approach. When I mention this lots of people online say they're way more interested in playing and having fun...yet there are whole forums and subforums dedicated to "winning" RPGs in various ways...and maybe the occasional post about just relaxing and having fun. To me that's pie-in-the-sky thinking. It's a Platonic Ideal but it's impossible in reality. They just won't. If I only ever played with people who didn't try to exploit every loophole and game the system, I'd never get to play. Ever. Getting close to 40 years playing RPGs and there's always several in every group, more often than not all of the players do that. [/QUOTE]

Verification