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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 6344332" data-attributes="member: 6688049">I think it's a great improvement that the D&D worlds are being brought back as 5e campaign models: Forgotten Realms, Dragonlance, Greyhawk, Dark Sun, Mystara, Eberron, plus the Asgardian/Norse, Celtic, Olympian/Greek, and Pharaonic/Egyptian pantheons. Apparently the Dark Sun and Mystara pantheons won't be included in the PHB. Will they be in the DMG? Here are some suggestions for improvement:<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Where is Nerath? I'm no fan of 4e, but don't enough people have a connection with that world for it to remain as one of the Campaign Models? I don't mind Nerath being there as long as it's not edging out the other settings (such as Mystara).</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">I suggest at least mentioning Birthright, Blackmoor (which exists as a distinct stand-alone world, even though a similar version of it also exists in the distant past of Mystara), Jakandor, Council of Wyrms, Ghostwalk, Pelinore, the Realm of the D&D Animated Series, Mahasarpa, Masque of the Red Death (Gothic Earth), and the other rarer settings in the DMG. Here's a wider list: <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-worlds" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-worlds</a></li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Even though it's nice that the text says that the DM is "the authority on the campaign [...] even if the setting is a published world", I suggest in the DMG explicitly say that each DM's version of a published setting is its own parallel alternate world. Even if a DM stuck perfectly to the "canon", their version of Forgotten Realms is simply not the WotC timeline. Surely one of the PCs made at least one footprint different than is depicted in "WotC's D&D World of Forgotten Realms". </li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">And not only the "worlds", but each DM's multiverse is a parallel alternate multiverse. Every DM's campaign is to some degree or another a different multiverse...since even if two DMs stuck to the planar "canon", the planar events and actions of the gods would unfold at least slightly differently in their campaign. It's not like the DMs are the authority on only their worlds, while WotC remains the authority on the Multiverse. DMs are each the authority for their entire D&D Multiverse.</li> </ul> <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Though it's a step in the direction of explicitly supporting homegrown settings, it's just not logical to say that "Alongside these worlds are hundreds of thousands more, created by generations of D&D players for their own games. And amid all the richness of the multiverse, you might create a world of your own." Unless WotC sponsors some sort of homebrew world design contest, or runs a regular column featuring homebrew worlds, or makes a dedicated "official homebrew" website or wiki, these "hundreds of thousands more" worlds will simply never be seen in the WotC multiverse. So might as well be clear that the WotC multiverse, as depicted in official books is one timeline and multiverse, and every single DM's campaign is a parallel D&D multiverse. Sure it's a "nice" improvement to "imply" the homebrew worlds are just off the edge of the WotC world map, but if they aren't going to be seen, then let's just say up front that the WotC Multiverse is one of "hundreds of thousands" of multiverses, all of which lie somewhere on the spectrum of homebrew and "close to canon". None of the DMs worlds are actually WotC's Multiverse. That's a good thing. Might as well be up front about it. </li> </ul><ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">It will be interesting to see how 5e merges all the cosmologies into a single multiverse (a la 2nd edition Planescape, but with a more sophisticated and diverse retcon). As I've mentioned before, I suggest the DMG include a brief explanation of what D&D Brand Manager Bruce Heard, in the Dragon Magazine article "Up, Away, and Beyond" (<a href="http://pandius.com/upaway.html" target="_blank">http://pandius.com/upaway.html</a>), referred to as "game universes". Just as Nerath was a well-meaning conceptual dead-end...in that it was an attempt to make a "generic" D&D world which included all the best adventure sites of previous editions, but which actually blurred away and genericized what had already been developed as distinct world settings...likewise so is the 5e multiverse a well-meaning dead-end...an improvement over the 4e conception, but a dead-end nevertheless.</li> </ul> Why? Because no matter how skillfully and artistically 5e merges all of the cosmologies into a single multiverse (and like I said, Mearls & Co. will probably do a great job, within that conceptual framework), there's no getting around that fact that these settings have been portrayed by other rules systems, with actual in-game, in-world effects. Bruce Heard's "game universe" concept...even if it's just a footnote in the DMG, would provide a clear place for all these different depictions. Namely, each rules system (OD&D, BECMI, 1e, 2e, SAGA, 3e, 4e, 5e) is not only an "out-of-game" lense through which the world is portrayed, with in-game differences depending on which lense is employed, but also each of these rules system "lenses" is actually a distinct "Reality" which is above the "multiverse". There's the BECMI Reality and Multiverse (which is exactly as depicted in BECMI products, with no retcons), the AD&D 2E Reality and Multiverse, the 3e Reality with its various Cosmologies connected via the Plane of Shadow, the 4e Reality with its Astral Sea and Elemental Chaos, and now the 5e Reality. According to this concept, all D&D Worlds potentially exist in all Game Realities, even though only a few of these combinations of World+Reality (Campaign Setting+Rules Edition) have actually been published by TSR and WotC. For example, the BECMI Reality has only been used as the lense for Mystara and Pelinore, but all the D&D worlds could potential be portrayed through this lense (such as a BECMI Dragonlance!), and in their BECMI portrayal they would be slightly different than their portrayal in other Realities. The 2e Reality of Mystara has also been portrayed (plus partial views of the 3e and 4e Reality of Mystara through the occasional magazine or web article). And all Realities extend to the beginning and end of the timeline. It's just that for some worlds, such as Forgotten Realms, our lense shifted. We were seeing the 1e Reality of Forgotten Realms, then at the Time of Troubles, TSR started showing us the 2e Reality of FR. The proof that the realities extend backward and forward in time is that the Arcane Age FR products were viewed through the 2E Reality, even though, since they happened before the ToT, they "should" have been portrayed through the 1e Reality. Likewise, the same time periods of Dragonlance (e.g. the War of the Lance) have been portrayed through different Game Realities (1E Reality, 2E Reality, SAGA Reality, 3E Reality) with real, but subtle in-world differences. So the 5e Reality would be its own "game universe"...the only one which WotC is still actively supporting. Yet all the other Realities continue "off the screen". And just as each DM's campaign is an Alternate Multiverse, so is each DM's application of the rules an Alternate Game Reality. Here's the concept, with more examples: <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-realities" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-realities</a>The existing Basic D&D text quoted above is fine for the Basic Game, but I suggest the DMG have a section explaining the Alternate Multiverse and Alternate Reality concept.</blockquote>

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