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The many worlds of D&D? The many multiverses of D&D? The many realities of D&D?
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<blockquote data-quote="Dungeonosophy" data-source="post: 6344598" data-attributes="member: 6688049"><p>Even better would be to instill a new culture into the 5e which explicitly encourages and even "expects" DMs to mix and match, and kit-bash any published setting. For example, though using the Forgotten Realms as the default world for published storylines (adventures) is fine, imagine if every Forgotten Realms adventure had a web enhancement which gave a suggested placement and adaptation for each of the other D&D worlds, and selection of alternate proper names for use in homebrew worlds. Imagine if the DMG's "world design" section explicitly suggested that Sword Coast map from the Starter Set be used only as the core of the DM's own hand-drawn continental map, with each DM expanding from the edge of the map, drawing Faerun themselves (or whatever the DM calls their continent).</p><p></p><p>We agree that the 5e approach is an improvement over the 4e approach. I am suggesting some subtle concepts (could be called "petty semantics") which would provide a clear and vigorous framework for instilling a culture of homebrew worlds and kit-bashing into this edition. I'm suggesting one step beyond what WotC appears to be committed to.</p><p></p><p>(Imagine if someone had suggested, when the 4e DMG was being finalized, that WotC do what it's now doing with 5e. They would've likely been ignored. I'm speaking of healthy concepts which go beyond the prevailing mindset.)</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I agree that the 5e portrayal of a single coherent Multiverse will probably be interesting and well-done. I'm not really opposed to that. I'm just saying that the logic of not recognizing that the "rules" do have subtle in-game effects, is a conceptual dead-end. A subtle cul de sac in regard to clarity of logic. My post isn't so much against the 5e approach of bringing everything to a single Great Wheel Multiverse again. It's simply suggesting that the canonical statement of Bruce Heard about different "Realities" is the clear and logical way to justify all changes between how the worlds have been portrayed in different rules iterations.</p><p></p><p>For example, no matter how well Mearls & Co. retcon the BECMI Five Spheres cosmology of Mystara into the Great Wheel, the 5e Mystara will simply be somewhat different than the BECMI Mystara. I mean, in the BECMI Reality, there are basically only six character classes (Fighter, Thief, Magic-user, Cleric, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling). But in the 2E Reality of Mystara, we found out that a few of the Fighter NPCs are really Rangers and Paladins, and a few of the Thief NPCs are really Bards! In the BECMI Reality, all the Elves (disregarding some later rules expansions) are essentially Fighter/Magic-Users. Yet in the 2E Reality, some of the established Elf NPCs have other character classes. These are some significant in-world differences between the two Realities. It's most obvious in BECMI vs. AD&D. The SAGA Reality, through which Krynn has been viewed (along with a Dragon magazine article which gave suggestions for using SAGA for other D&D worlds), would be another very distinct lense. But there are similar in-world effects "encoded" into the fabric of each rules iteration.</p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>I suggest that D&D Earth be included in the 5e Multiverse. I have a page about that world here: <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-earth" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-earth</a></p><p></p><p>All the d20 Modern campaign models (and Masque of the Red Death, and other TSR/WotC rpgs set on Earth, such as Boot Hill and the 3e Robin Hood mini-setting) would exist in that world, with Urban Arcana as the primary model. Perhaps some Campaign Models would need to be Alternate Timelines, unless for "5e Earth", the Red Death and Bughunters invasion and the Dark•Matter storylines are supposed to all happen in the same timeline!</p><p></p><p>So, besides Alternate Multiverses and Alternate Realities, there'd also need to be the concept of Alternate Timelines (for a single world).</p><p></p><p> I suggest d20 Modern be re-released as a series of 5e "D&D Modern" genre books , with the modern rules and classes being 100% compatible and multi-classable with medieval character classes. <a href="https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/genre-books" target="_blank">https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/genre-books</a></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p></p><p>Thanks for this...I didn't know that Arcane Age featured a way to model the 1E era through using the 2E rules! According to the "Heardian" Realities concept, if a group really used the 1E rules to play in the Arcane Age, then they would be experiencing the 1E Reality of Abeir-Toril. But if they used those "quasi-1E modeling" 2E rules, then they would be experiencing the 2E Reality. (If they used the 2E rules unaltered, then this would be an Alternate Timeline of the Second Reality.)</p><p></p><p>All Realities of Forgotten Realms--whether they be 3E FR, 4E FR, 5E FR, SAGA FR, BECMI FR, or OD&D FR (with fighting-men) "should" model the pre-ToT/post-ToT change in their rules sets (for example the change in magic) if they ever produce adventures which take place prior to the ToT. (This is similar to how 3e Dragonlance seamlessly included the 3e versions of the SAGA spellcasting classes, which only exist after a certain point in the timeline.)</p><p></p><p>I suggest that the 1E Reality of Forgotten Realms continued beyond the ToT, and on into the present day--it's just that the 1E Reality would need "quasi-2E" conversion notes to make it approximate the in-world changes. For example, after the ToT in the 1E Reality, the 1e combat system and other core rules would still be used, but the magic system would be shifted to approxmiate 2e-style magic.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Dungeonosophy, post: 6344598, member: 6688049"] Even better would be to instill a new culture into the 5e which explicitly encourages and even "expects" DMs to mix and match, and kit-bash any published setting. For example, though using the Forgotten Realms as the default world for published storylines (adventures) is fine, imagine if every Forgotten Realms adventure had a web enhancement which gave a suggested placement and adaptation for each of the other D&D worlds, and selection of alternate proper names for use in homebrew worlds. Imagine if the DMG's "world design" section explicitly suggested that Sword Coast map from the Starter Set be used only as the core of the DM's own hand-drawn continental map, with each DM expanding from the edge of the map, drawing Faerun themselves (or whatever the DM calls their continent). We agree that the 5e approach is an improvement over the 4e approach. I am suggesting some subtle concepts (could be called "petty semantics") which would provide a clear and vigorous framework for instilling a culture of homebrew worlds and kit-bashing into this edition. I'm suggesting one step beyond what WotC appears to be committed to. (Imagine if someone had suggested, when the 4e DMG was being finalized, that WotC do what it's now doing with 5e. They would've likely been ignored. I'm speaking of healthy concepts which go beyond the prevailing mindset.) I agree that the 5e portrayal of a single coherent Multiverse will probably be interesting and well-done. I'm not really opposed to that. I'm just saying that the logic of not recognizing that the "rules" do have subtle in-game effects, is a conceptual dead-end. A subtle cul de sac in regard to clarity of logic. My post isn't so much against the 5e approach of bringing everything to a single Great Wheel Multiverse again. It's simply suggesting that the canonical statement of Bruce Heard about different "Realities" is the clear and logical way to justify all changes between how the worlds have been portrayed in different rules iterations. For example, no matter how well Mearls & Co. retcon the BECMI Five Spheres cosmology of Mystara into the Great Wheel, the 5e Mystara will simply be somewhat different than the BECMI Mystara. I mean, in the BECMI Reality, there are basically only six character classes (Fighter, Thief, Magic-user, Cleric, Elf, Dwarf, Halfling). But in the 2E Reality of Mystara, we found out that a few of the Fighter NPCs are really Rangers and Paladins, and a few of the Thief NPCs are really Bards! In the BECMI Reality, all the Elves (disregarding some later rules expansions) are essentially Fighter/Magic-Users. Yet in the 2E Reality, some of the established Elf NPCs have other character classes. These are some significant in-world differences between the two Realities. It's most obvious in BECMI vs. AD&D. The SAGA Reality, through which Krynn has been viewed (along with a Dragon magazine article which gave suggestions for using SAGA for other D&D worlds), would be another very distinct lense. But there are similar in-world effects "encoded" into the fabric of each rules iteration. I suggest that D&D Earth be included in the 5e Multiverse. I have a page about that world here: [URL]https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/d-d-earth[/URL] All the d20 Modern campaign models (and Masque of the Red Death, and other TSR/WotC rpgs set on Earth, such as Boot Hill and the 3e Robin Hood mini-setting) would exist in that world, with Urban Arcana as the primary model. Perhaps some Campaign Models would need to be Alternate Timelines, unless for "5e Earth", the Red Death and Bughunters invasion and the Dark•Matter storylines are supposed to all happen in the same timeline! So, besides Alternate Multiverses and Alternate Realities, there'd also need to be the concept of Alternate Timelines (for a single world). I suggest d20 Modern be re-released as a series of 5e "D&D Modern" genre books , with the modern rules and classes being 100% compatible and multi-classable with medieval character classes. [URL]https://sites.google.com/site/dndphilmont/genre-books[/URL] Thanks for this...I didn't know that Arcane Age featured a way to model the 1E era through using the 2E rules! According to the "Heardian" Realities concept, if a group really used the 1E rules to play in the Arcane Age, then they would be experiencing the 1E Reality of Abeir-Toril. But if they used those "quasi-1E modeling" 2E rules, then they would be experiencing the 2E Reality. (If they used the 2E rules unaltered, then this would be an Alternate Timeline of the Second Reality.) All Realities of Forgotten Realms--whether they be 3E FR, 4E FR, 5E FR, SAGA FR, BECMI FR, or OD&D FR (with fighting-men) "should" model the pre-ToT/post-ToT change in their rules sets (for example the change in magic) if they ever produce adventures which take place prior to the ToT. (This is similar to how 3e Dragonlance seamlessly included the 3e versions of the SAGA spellcasting classes, which only exist after a certain point in the timeline.) I suggest that the 1E Reality of Forgotten Realms continued beyond the ToT, and on into the present day--it's just that the 1E Reality would need "quasi-2E" conversion notes to make it approximate the in-world changes. For example, after the ToT in the 1E Reality, the 1e combat system and other core rules would still be used, but the magic system would be shifted to approxmiate 2e-style magic. [/QUOTE]
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