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<blockquote data-quote="Jay Lofstead" data-source="post: 598063" data-attributes="member: 7199">I have done some looking into this myself and did see a general pattern.&nbsp; It looks like a basic +3 levels with an adjustment by +/- 2 depending on the relative power of the adjustment (how does the effectiveness of the &quot;mass&quot; version compare to the base version).Take Mass Teleport compared to Teleport.&nbsp; All it does is to double the weight that can be transported.&nbsp; As far as effectiveness goes, this is not as good as Mass Haste (which extends the number of creatures by your level).If I were to make a &quot;real&quot; mass teleport, I'd want it to allow the touched creatures to teleport with the caster each using the minimal weight allowance for the teleport spell (with one target touched per caster level).&nbsp; This would be a +3 or +4 spell levels rather than just +2.Mass Phantasmal Killer takes a single death effect and allows it to work against several members of a group (a LOT more effective).&nbsp; Making that one +5 makes sense.Look at things from that angle and see where it gets you.&nbsp; I think you might agree.&nbsp; The confounding piece is that the mass versions are not all using the same relationship to their base counterparts and the effectiveness of the mass versions vary greatly compared to each other.&nbsp; It certainly isn't a fixed adjustment.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Jay Lofstead, post: 598063, member: 7199"] I have done some looking into this myself and did see a general pattern. It looks like a basic +3 levels with an adjustment by +/- 2 depending on the relative power of the adjustment (how does the effectiveness of the "mass" version compare to the base version). Take Mass Teleport compared to Teleport. All it does is to double the weight that can be transported. As far as effectiveness goes, this is not as good as Mass Haste (which extends the number of creatures by your level). If I were to make a "real" mass teleport, I'd want it to allow the touched creatures to teleport with the caster each using the minimal weight allowance for the teleport spell (with one target touched per caster level). This would be a +3 or +4 spell levels rather than just +2. Mass Phantasmal Killer takes a single death effect and allows it to work against several members of a group (a LOT more effective). Making that one +5 makes sense. Look at things from that angle and see where it gets you. I think you might agree. The confounding piece is that the mass versions are not all using the same relationship to their base counterparts and the effectiveness of the mass versions vary greatly compared to each other. It certainly isn't a fixed adjustment. [/QUOTE]

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