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<blockquote data-quote="Li Shenron" data-source="post: 7525103" data-attributes="member: 1465">What really the math doesn't take into account is that a flat bonus allows skills and saves to beat DCs that are otherwise not possible with advantage, and similarly a flat penalty prevents to beat DCs that are still possible with disadvantage. This consideration doesn't apply to attacks since they have the autohit/automiss rule.So as an example, all the advantage in the world including Lucky et al won't help a Rogue pick a lock with a DC beyond her maximum possible roll result, while a flat bonus might.This doesn't devalue a bit the excellent analysis of the OP...About AC, I add the following thoughts:- I think in general 5e monsters AC is quite low, so you are more often in the situation when advantage is equivalent to a bigger probability boost- it is not true that you &quot;don't need it&quot;, you ALWAYS need it because in the course of the adventuring day any extra hit you score makes you go further; +25% when your rate is 50% means 50% more hits on average, so possibly 1 extra encounter every 2 -&gt; that's a very rough gauge since obviously the dynamics of encounters are far more complex than just rolling attacks, but it's just to give a general idea of what it could mean if you could have advantage all the time- lower AC monsters are often huge bags of HP, easy to hit but slow to take down, in which case 50% more hits equates to taking 33% less time to kill it- OR lower AC monsters might mean lower-level minions which often come in hordes, in which case dropping them faster is important to decrease the number of attacks (or actions) that the party could be targeted with</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Li Shenron, post: 7525103, member: 1465"] What [I]really [/I]the math doesn't take into account is that a flat bonus allows skills and saves to beat DCs that are otherwise not possible with advantage, and similarly a flat penalty prevents to beat DCs that are still possible with disadvantage. This consideration doesn't apply to attacks since they have the autohit/automiss rule. So as an example, all the advantage in the world including Lucky et al won't help a Rogue pick a lock with a DC beyond her maximum possible roll result, while a flat bonus might. This doesn't devalue a bit the excellent analysis of the OP... About AC, I add the following thoughts: - I think in general 5e monsters AC is quite low, so you are more often in the situation when advantage is equivalent to a bigger probability boost - it is [I]not[/I] true that you "don't need it", you ALWAYS need it because in the course of the adventuring day any extra hit you score makes you go further; +25% when your rate is 50% means 50% more hits on average, so possibly 1 extra encounter every 2 -> that's a very rough gauge since obviously the dynamics of encounters are far more complex than just rolling attacks, but it's just to give a general idea of what it could mean if you could have advantage all the time - lower AC monsters are often huge bags of HP, easy to hit but slow to take down, in which case 50% more hits equates to taking 33% less time to kill it - OR lower AC monsters might mean lower-level minions which often come in hordes, in which case dropping them faster is important to decrease the number of attacks (or actions) that the party could be targeted with [/QUOTE]

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