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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8221195" data-attributes="member: 93670">Depends.   Take a 5th level caster with an 18 in the relevant casting stat casting fireball.  It can do that twice & has a dc14 dex save compared to a fighter with a greatsword  & 18 strength.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A troll has 84 hp 15 ac & with +1 dex needs to roll a 14or better to save for half of  an average  28hp.    Both fireballs won't even bloody it.  The fighter needs to roll an 8 or bettergiving him two attacks with a 60% chance of hitting for an average of  11 each.  I started with troll because it's a good baseline example where both are pretty close but neither is obviously better without a lot of what if situational questions.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">There's no  question that a fireball is great at smashing a bunch of clustered weak enemies so no need to do the math on what if  an infinite number of 11hp goblins are clustered</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">A barbed devil is the same ac15 cr5 as the troll but has 110 hp and due to magic resistance has advantage on a roll that needs to be 11 or higher for an effective 2 rolls each with a 55% chance of resulting in save for half or about a 60% chance to save for half while the fighter still has two swings each with a 60% chance of hitting but in this case the damage is halfed because the fighter doesn't yet have a magic greatsword</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">By level 11 the caster has a good selection of spells that could be considered save or die & they both have a relevant 20, & a +1 greatsword/focus item respectively.  Lets pit them against auril from icewind dale as it has a cr9 10 & 11 form [spoiler] [/spoiler]</li> </ul>[spoiler][ATTACH=full]134024[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]134025[/ATTACH][ATTACH=full]134026[/ATTACH]all three have legendary &  magic resist[ATTACH=full]134027[/ATTACH][/spoiler]Nearly every save or die spell is going to be con or wis save, with those con/wis save bonuses on top of the resistances it's safe to call bothering with a save or die spell a wasted spell slot. With 13 16 & 19AC, the fighter has three attacks each with a +10 to attack where he needs to roll a 3 6 or 9 to hit, calling them almost certain almost certain & 55% chance of  3x13 slashing  for the fighter is fair.  Disintegrate & chain lightning both use a spell slot & if not saved one will slightly* outdamage the fighter for one round while the other if not saved will somewhat fall behind.  Except the level 11 caster only has one sixth level spell so can't cast both of those in one fight yet.5e really screws the pooch for the cost/benefit ratio math when it comes to one big hit vrs multiple small hits*no seriously, that's not sarcasm. avg 45 & avg35+40 vrs GWM-5+10 +2d6+5*3= vg 55 assuming no crits needing a roll of 5 8 or 11 to hit.  If the fighter crits then all bets are off & it doesn't really matter what the caster does</blockquote>

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