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General Tabletop Discussion
*Dungeons & Dragons
The mathematics of D&D–Damage and HP
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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8227405" data-attributes="member: 93670"><p>That explains why I was confused by your chart. I agree that damage <em><u>per</u></em> round is not an especially useful metric by itself as there are too many other variables to consider & that's why I did numbers for damage accumulated <em><u>across</u></em> rounds or what in WoW terms would be the total dataset of damage output over the course of a raid that gets used to calculate DPS, average damage, & so on.</p><p></p><p>WoW raids are a great example of why casters miss the mark so badly in 5e as it's organized by what everyone brings to the table <em>then</em> filling extra slots with quality of life stuff. in 5e we have the sword & board high hp high ac tank wearing both the crown for tank as well as having a damage output capable of laughing at a lower hp cloth wearing caster. That sort of situation is so flaming pants on head backwards & wrong that it runs straight into either "yea xyz creature is mostly immune to spells because X" or "we found a bug in the code & a htfix is rolling out shortly" type territory.</p><p></p><p>Extending the WoW metaphor it's fine for a class to have terrible damage output and terrible durability if it brings serious utility to the table such as battlefield control, buff/debuff, healing, or damage mitigation... but the way rests, the inability to drop below zero hp, & death by massive damage being pegged to max rather than current HP largely mitigates the last two there while spell slots & concentration along with monster ACs that are almost guaranteed to let a PC hit largely gets rid of the rest. Sure a well timed web can really save the day, but it can't be well timed if the baddies aren't all within a 20ft cube (smaller area than past editions when LFQW was still a thing) & the monsters get a save every round now and if they fail their save they just need to take 2d4 damage from one of the most common energy types or use their action to make a strength check.</p><p></p><p>One could say things like "but teleport" or some other noncombat utility spell & there might be a case to be made, but it's certainly not one supported by WotC's hardcovers when things like the wandering emporium don't even have a circle to learn.</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8227405, member: 93670"] That explains why I was confused by your chart. I agree that damage [I][U]per[/U][/I] round is not an especially useful metric by itself as there are too many other variables to consider & that's why I did numbers for damage accumulated [I][U]across[/U][/I] rounds or what in WoW terms would be the total dataset of damage output over the course of a raid that gets used to calculate DPS, average damage, & so on. WoW raids are a great example of why casters miss the mark so badly in 5e as it's organized by what everyone brings to the table [I]then[/I] filling extra slots with quality of life stuff. in 5e we have the sword & board high hp high ac tank wearing both the crown for tank as well as having a damage output capable of laughing at a lower hp cloth wearing caster. That sort of situation is so flaming pants on head backwards & wrong that it runs straight into either "yea xyz creature is mostly immune to spells because X" or "we found a bug in the code & a htfix is rolling out shortly" type territory. Extending the WoW metaphor it's fine for a class to have terrible damage output and terrible durability if it brings serious utility to the table such as battlefield control, buff/debuff, healing, or damage mitigation... but the way rests, the inability to drop below zero hp, & death by massive damage being pegged to max rather than current HP largely mitigates the last two there while spell slots & concentration along with monster ACs that are almost guaranteed to let a PC hit largely gets rid of the rest. Sure a well timed web can really save the day, but it can't be well timed if the baddies aren't all within a 20ft cube (smaller area than past editions when LFQW was still a thing) & the monsters get a save every round now and if they fail their save they just need to take 2d4 damage from one of the most common energy types or use their action to make a strength check. One could say things like "but teleport" or some other noncombat utility spell & there might be a case to be made, but it's certainly not one supported by WotC's hardcovers when things like the wandering emporium don't even have a circle to learn. [/QUOTE]
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