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<blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8228214" data-attributes="member: 93670">[USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER] Yes I'm serious that your argument of &quot;things&quot; is underdeveloped and lacking in any detail whatsoever.&nbsp; It's on you to make your own case rather than vaguely hinting in it's general direction in a completely nonspecific undefined manner &amp; expecting it to be accepted.&nbsp; Modifying chance to hit does significantly impact the math yes &amp; that's why I made the numbers by percentage chances to hit to avoid obfuscation behind needless layers of numbers.&nbsp; Don't forget that 5e is pegged to make targeting AC a rather trivial hurdle with the bar for magic &amp; saves much higher in various ways on top of how meaningless resist nonmagical b/p/s&nbsp; is compared to the overused energy resists.I'm not acting like once haste ends it's over, I'm being realistic in that all of the hurdles do not justify the excessive red tape concentration&nbsp; &amp; almost good&nbsp; spells with too many strings keeping them from being great.&nbsp; It's not like energy vulnerability &amp; resist magic/nonmagic b/p/s are common.&nbsp; Just look at the last few posts.&nbsp; When left with no hope of defending the damage &amp; ac vrs save disparity you suggested a caster also prepare ten different mostly concentration almost good buffs laden with strings &amp; red tape with more than one literally being a hinderance to a party for when damage &amp; debuff spells are a poor option due to braindead design still fighting the worst extremes of 3.5 style LFQW as if the numbers supported that sort ofheavy duty LFQW still being a thing.&nbsp; [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER] followed that up by suggest that casters also prepare spells that allow them to do &quot;things&quot; outside of combat.&nbsp; It's like the two of you think caster prepared spell lists are some kind of always ready for anything omniescent player quantum state able to fit unlimited spells.edit:&nbsp; Yes WoW is very different from d&amp;d, those differences are what makes the cold logic of pure math &amp; &quot;what do you bring to the table&quot; used in things like WoW raid slot selection perfect for highlighting the problems&nbsp; in this aspect of&nbsp; 5e design where &quot;well we are friends &amp; playing together&quot; gets to paper over the same sort of WoW style analysis obvious even to&nbsp; casual eyeball level detail.&nbsp; That papering only excuses bad design so far.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="tetrasodium, post: 8228214, member: 93670"] [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER] Yes I'm serious that your argument of "things" is underdeveloped and lacking in any detail whatsoever. It's on you to make your own case rather than vaguely hinting in it's general direction in a completely nonspecific undefined manner & expecting it to be accepted. Modifying chance to hit does significantly impact the math yes & that's why I made the numbers by percentage chances to hit to avoid obfuscation behind needless layers of numbers. Don't forget that 5e is pegged to make targeting AC a rather trivial hurdle with the bar for magic & saves much higher in various ways on top of how meaningless resist nonmagical b/p/s is compared to the overused energy resists. I'm not acting like once haste ends it's over, I'm being realistic in that all of the hurdles do not justify the excessive red tape concentration & almost good spells with too many strings keeping them from being great. It's not like energy vulnerability & resist magic/nonmagic b/p/s are common. Just look at the last few posts. When left with no hope of defending the damage & ac vrs save disparity you suggested a caster also prepare ten different mostly concentration almost good buffs laden with strings & red tape with more than one literally being a hinderance to a party for when damage & debuff spells are a poor option due to braindead design still fighting the worst extremes of 3.5 style LFQW as if the numbers supported that sort ofheavy duty LFQW still being a thing. [USER=6795602]@FrogReaver[/USER] followed that up by suggest that casters also prepare spells that allow them to do "things" outside of combat. It's like the two of you think caster prepared spell lists are some kind of always ready for anything omniescent player quantum state able to fit unlimited spells. edit: Yes WoW is very different from d&d, those differences are what makes the cold logic of pure math & "what do you bring to the table" used in things like WoW raid slot selection perfect for highlighting the problems in this aspect of 5e design where "well we are friends & playing together" gets to paper over the same sort of WoW style analysis obvious even to casual eyeball level detail. That papering only excuses bad design so far. [/QUOTE]

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