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Message: <blockquote data-quote="tetrasodium" data-source="post: 8228346" data-attributes="member: 93670">You also should go back to review what you said next time you rush to roll out the snark like when I asked for details on "things".  That is significantly more detailed than your original list of "things"While still not enough to bridge the gap & badly contrived or depending on system differences no longer present in 5e to manufature value in many ways it's at least some level of detail that is capable of being responded to.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=teleport&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">teleport</a> This one is a complex array of issues that range from only being useful if the GM makesit so to depending on edition differences no longer present in 5e <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">First & foremost trying to teleport to an area you are "very familiar with" has a 24% chance of not getting where you want ranging from a mishap to going somewhere else.  The odds quickly get worse from there.<ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">Even if we assume that one can teleport without error every time it runs into a more significant problem. Specifically that there is no point unless the GM makes it a point.  In past editions when you recovered hp slowly while resting  in the field & slightly less slow while resting <a href="http://dnd.arkalseif.info/feats/complete-warrior--61/faster-healing--1084/index.html" target="_blank">under the right conditions</a> it was a serious benefit to simply teleporting back to town to rest .  Firstly that was still a thing generally of dubious value in those older editions though because the person needing the heavy duty recovery was unlikely to be the squishy caster so the caster recovering faster than their crunchier allies is a meaningless hurry up & wait benefit.  Secondly even if we assume there was some tangible benefit to doing it the caster still needs to somehow return & doing so is unlikely to be easy or worth the risk unless the gm places a teleport circle where the party is now </li> </ul></li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul"><a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells/plane-shift" target="_blank">planeshift</a>: This one now has two massive elephants in the room & both of them left a pile on the floor .  <ul> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The first elephant in the room here is that this 7th level spell requires a "forked metal rod worth 250gp, attuned to a particular plane of existence."  This spell literally can not even be cast unless the GM gives you something specific to cast it with or something specific to craft the required component needed to cast it.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">The other is of course Descent into Avernus where the players along with an entire city are dragged into another plane without the use of a player casting such a spell & it eventually ends with players returning from a hardcover adventure where nearly every single creature has some combination of energy resists energy immunities and magic resistance long before anyone is capable of casting it.</li> </ul></li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">revive the dead: This one is mostly divine specific but I'm not dismissing the possibility of a arcane raise dead type spell existing & caster focused divine class/archetpes exist so it doesn't go away at that. The critical second point is that bringing Bob's body (or some piece of it) back to a town/city & paying a local cleric to bring him back has always been an option to the point of that kind of thing occasionally even getting mentioned in modules & such simply because Bob can't cast raise dead on himself if he's dead if no other reason. Also there are a wide array of ways that a GM could have something else bring bob back, Keith Baker wrote about several <a href="http://keith-baker.com/the-cost-of-a-life/" target="_blank">here</a> & some of he ravenloft/vanrichten previews seem to imply similar things while talking about dark gifts.  I'm not sure why you'd bring up a spell the caster can use to bring an ally back from death but not themselves  as such a massive feather in the cap for casters.</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">curing curses & diseases.  [spoiler="xge relaxation"][ATTACH=full]134543[/ATTACH][/spoiler] In 5e <a href="https://www.dndbeyond.com/spells?filter-class=0&filter-search=curse&filter-verbal=&filter-somatic=&filter-material=&filter-concentration=&filter-ritual=&filter-sub-class=" target="_blank">bestow curse</a> is a concentration spell with a 1 minute duration , trog stench lasts 1 turn, wight life drain lasts until a long rest...  While most of these effects allow regular saves or automatically go away after a long rest there are still rare exceptions like mummy rot & the clay golem thing a group without a caster can hire an NPC to cure it just as they could if bob was the one who needed to cast raise dead but was also the one who was dead.  "saved the party from needing to hire an npc to cast a spell" is lightyears away from justifying all of the cards in the deck stacked elusively against casters</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">transforming into dragons: The only way that even google seems to think this might be doable is with true [spoiler="true polymorph"][ATTACH=full]134545[/ATTACH][/spoiler] As a 9th level spell this is only possible from level 17 on and of such dubious value & even my <a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/78m77t/draconic_sorcerer_wants_to_become_a_dragon/" target="_blank">best effort from google</a> was quick to point out the various downsides of tilting at this windmill that include but aren't limited to "What'd be the reason for them to stick with the party?"  "retire the character" and my persona favorite "<a href="https://www.reddit.com/r/dndnext/comments/78m77t/draconic_sorcerer_wants_to_become_a_dragon/dov7cc7?utm_source=share&utm_medium=web2x&context=3" target="_blank">High level D&D is naughty word BONKERS ... I promise you the other players will be doing bonkers naughty word too, and at that point the campaign will be almost over anyway.</a>".</li> <li data-xf-list-type="ul">conjuring elementals/celestials/etc... Really?... No seriously... This is getting into territory on par with holding up how well sidewalk support using a unicycle or pogostick  in a discussion about the state of bike lanes.   You think that all of these strings red tape and hurdles were to proactively offset the game crushing powerhouse known as the shepherd circle druid almost nobody has ever seen played since it was released in XGE?  You do know that magic resist energy resist/immune legendary resist & so on don't affect conjured creatures right?  While casters other than the shepherd can conjure creatures, they are rarely worth conjuring. Tasha's introduced some new spells to summon useful creatures, but again we are talking years into 5e & concentration spells.</li> </ul></blockquote>

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