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<blockquote data-quote="Doctor Futurity" data-source="post: 7613345" data-attributes="member: 10738">And those are just the minor changes. The top problem for many (myself for sure) with 4E was that it fundamentally changed how I could play D&amp;D. From 1980 to 2003 D&amp;D was a game I played without minis. I did not own nor would I ever own minis until D&amp;D 3.5 edition, when I did reluctantly get in to using them with one group (and hated it), primarily because they were necessary to the mechanics as written. By 4E even the possibility of Theater of the Mind as a thing you could manage with good mental imaging of the battlefield was suddenly gone. Diseases and poisons (that weren't a tiny speed bump) were gone. The ability to pretend like hit points were a measure of actual physical health was gone. In fact, the entire concept of any imaginary nod toward verisimilitude was gone in favor of a mechanical implementation that didn't pretend to be anything other than a board game...gone.Yikes, gonna stop! Don't need to derail this into a legacy 4E edition war again.(FYI taken for what it was - a minis skirmish game with some RPG rules bolted on - it was quite enjoyable. But after two years of running it the cracks in the seams of 4E were growing thick and scary and virtually everyone who played D&amp;D in my area had jumped ship by 2010-2011 and Pathfinder's arrival was practically an instant death knell, at least locally).</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Doctor Futurity, post: 7613345, member: 10738"] And those are just the minor changes. The top problem for many (myself for sure) with 4E was that it fundamentally changed how I could play D&D. From 1980 to 2003 D&D was a game I played without minis. I did not own nor would I ever own minis until D&D 3.5 edition, when I did reluctantly get in to using them with one group (and hated it), primarily because they were necessary to the mechanics as written. By 4E even the possibility of Theater of the Mind as a thing you could manage with good mental imaging of the battlefield was suddenly gone. Diseases and poisons (that weren't a tiny speed bump) were gone. The ability to pretend like hit points were a measure of actual physical health was gone. In fact, the entire concept of any imaginary nod toward verisimilitude was gone in favor of a mechanical implementation that didn't pretend to be anything other than a board game...gone. Yikes, gonna stop! Don't need to derail this into a legacy 4E edition war again. (FYI taken for what it was - a minis skirmish game with some RPG rules bolted on - it was quite enjoyable. But after two years of running it the cracks in the seams of 4E were growing thick and scary and virtually everyone who played D&D in my area had jumped ship by 2010-2011 and Pathfinder's arrival was practically an instant death knell, at least locally). [/QUOTE]

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