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<blockquote data-quote="Scottius" data-source="post: 7617048" data-attributes="member: 6782008">Speaking from my personal experience, whereas it took almost the entire run of 3rd/3.5 D&amp;D before I saw the flaws that made me realize I never wanted to play with that particular ruleset again, with 4th Edition I had concerns going in and within a year of launch both my groups had moved out of playing D&amp;D as our primary RPG for various other systems. 4th Edition tried to move the game too far into the realm of minature wargame or boardgame. Yes other versions of D&amp;D had developed from war gaming, but 4th editions focus on powers moving pieces around the board in squares was clearly designed with the selling of minatures in mind. My groups found it entirely unsuited to theater of the mind play. Then there were the powers themselves. My players who were previously quite creative in their solutions to encounters in other games we played instead moved to only ever considering their cards in front of them. Every encounter became a combat one.&nbsp; And even within combat it just became a bland repetition of the same at will and encounter powers over and over again. That's the thing about striving for perfect balance, when all the choices are totally balanced they aren't truly choices anymore. At least not ones that really matter. When we switched back to other systems almost immediately my players started branching out, trying different tactics again, and not just blindly attacking because that was what the system prompted them to do. While I don't consider 5th edition perfect, I am at least willing to play and run it from time to time. I don't feel constrained in running games like it felt with 4th Ed, and the classes no longer feel all same which they definitely did last edition.</blockquote>

[QUOTE="Scottius, post: 7617048, member: 6782008"] Speaking from my personal experience, whereas it took almost the entire run of 3rd/3.5 D&D before I saw the flaws that made me realize I never wanted to play with that particular ruleset again, with 4th Edition I had concerns going in and within a year of launch both my groups had moved out of playing D&D as our primary RPG for various other systems. 4th Edition tried to move the game too far into the realm of minature wargame or boardgame. Yes other versions of D&D had developed from war gaming, but 4th editions focus on powers moving pieces around the board in squares was clearly designed with the selling of minatures in mind. My groups found it entirely unsuited to theater of the mind play. Then there were the powers themselves. My players who were previously quite creative in their solutions to encounters in other games we played instead moved to only ever considering their cards in front of them. Every encounter became a combat one. And even within combat it just became a bland repetition of the same at will and encounter powers over and over again. That's the thing about striving for perfect balance, when all the choices are totally balanced they aren't truly choices anymore. At least not ones that really matter. When we switched back to other systems almost immediately my players started branching out, trying different tactics again, and not just blindly attacking because that was what the system prompted them to do. While I don't consider 5th edition perfect, I am at least willing to play and run it from time to time. I don't feel constrained in running games like it felt with 4th Ed, and the classes no longer feel all same which they definitely did last edition. [/QUOTE]

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