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The MAYA Design Principle, or Why D&D's Future is Probably Going to Look Mostly Like Its Past
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<blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7617247" data-attributes="member: 996"><p>That's pretty extreme. 3.x had issues with some spells, and at high level, but core-only games in the 'sweet spot' were as workable as any ed, if you avoided a few obvious abuses. E6 style play could keep you out of trouble, that way indefinitely.</p><p>And, it's not just academic: 3e gives players far more and more detailed options than any prior edition or 5e. 4e might have rivaled 3e that way had it's run been longer, but that didn't happen.</p><p>So 3e is simply the top ed for sheer range and number of player options. Its well worth playing, today.</p><p></p><p> Yes, WotC produced a mini game of some sort which could be used with D&D from 2000 through to spinning that off to WizKids in 2014.</p><p>But, from 2010 Encounters offered D&D intro games using poster maps and counters - all free, and the Essentials Monster Vault came with tokens for all the monsters. Also around that time D&D minis went from strictly blind/random to sets.</p><p></p><p> That's the opposite of balance. Imbalanced systems stifle meaningful choice by presenting only a few, strictly superior options. Consider if a 1st level 1e MU had a choice of 1st level spells: Sleep, with no save, was so much better than the others they were more distractions than choices. In 3e, sleep granted a save, so other 1st level spells could compete, in 4e Sleep was more powerful than most other 1st level spells, as a Daily, but wasn't interchangeable with those less potent at-will or encounter spells.</p><p></p><p> 5e certainly doesn't seem that much better than 3e, heck, I'd rather play the latter if I get to try one of the many builds I never got to.</p><p>But I can somewhat agree about 5e DMs getting to be unconstrained - The rules leave us a great deal of latitude in deciding how things resolve. But, it can be constraining, too, as it's encounter guidelines and classes only play well together under a narrow, artificial pacing of 6-8 encounters and 2-3 short rests between long rests. </p><p></p><p> OK, finally, a hook to get back on topic. <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f609.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=";)" title="Wink ;)" data-smilie="2"data-shortname=";)" /> 5e is very familiar, and reasonably traditional in its class designs. Spells are 9 levels, and if you don't have em, your role is simply to hit things and hopefully kill them before they kill you. Same as it ever was. </p><p></p><p>But, really, with every 5e class getting at least some spells in at least one sub-class, and no class spell list being entirely unique (the Sorcerer, EK & AT get no unique spells), the reality of 'sameness,' seems to be independent of the 'feel.'</p></blockquote><p></p>
[QUOTE="Tony Vargas, post: 7617247, member: 996"] That's pretty extreme. 3.x had issues with some spells, and at high level, but core-only games in the 'sweet spot' were as workable as any ed, if you avoided a few obvious abuses. E6 style play could keep you out of trouble, that way indefinitely. And, it's not just academic: 3e gives players far more and more detailed options than any prior edition or 5e. 4e might have rivaled 3e that way had it's run been longer, but that didn't happen. So 3e is simply the top ed for sheer range and number of player options. Its well worth playing, today. Yes, WotC produced a mini game of some sort which could be used with D&D from 2000 through to spinning that off to WizKids in 2014. But, from 2010 Encounters offered D&D intro games using poster maps and counters - all free, and the Essentials Monster Vault came with tokens for all the monsters. Also around that time D&D minis went from strictly blind/random to sets. That's the opposite of balance. Imbalanced systems stifle meaningful choice by presenting only a few, strictly superior options. Consider if a 1st level 1e MU had a choice of 1st level spells: Sleep, with no save, was so much better than the others they were more distractions than choices. In 3e, sleep granted a save, so other 1st level spells could compete, in 4e Sleep was more powerful than most other 1st level spells, as a Daily, but wasn't interchangeable with those less potent at-will or encounter spells. 5e certainly doesn't seem that much better than 3e, heck, I'd rather play the latter if I get to try one of the many builds I never got to. But I can somewhat agree about 5e DMs getting to be unconstrained - The rules leave us a great deal of latitude in deciding how things resolve. But, it can be constraining, too, as it's encounter guidelines and classes only play well together under a narrow, artificial pacing of 6-8 encounters and 2-3 short rests between long rests. OK, finally, a hook to get back on topic. ;) 5e is very familiar, and reasonably traditional in its class designs. Spells are 9 levels, and if you don't have em, your role is simply to hit things and hopefully kill them before they kill you. Same as it ever was. But, really, with every 5e class getting at least some spells in at least one sub-class, and no class spell list being entirely unique (the Sorcerer, EK & AT get no unique spells), the reality of 'sameness,' seems to be independent of the 'feel.' [/QUOTE]
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