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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Tony Vargas" data-source="post: 7617468" data-attributes="member: 996">Hey, and it only took 45 years, and the IP changing hands 3 or 4 times.  IDK how many new players you introduced to 4e, but, judging from the fact you didn't lead with that info, and seem to assume that returning fans should have had an easier time with it, I'm forced  to conclude 0.I participated in the Encounters program from the 2nd season on - It's no longer called that, but AL is still pretty similar.  I also ran intro games at conventions until a couple years ago, when RL intervened.D&D, from 1e through 3.x, was always a tough sell and a lot of ramping up for a new player.  3e just had a plethora of options, many designed to confuse or suck in less skillful players, a device lifted from M:tG as part of designing lavish rewards for system mastery into the game.  1e wasn't intentionally designed that way, but it was quixotic and baroque in its arbitrary, nerdly complexity.  New players- and that really included anyone who hadn't mastered the art of DMing yet - were 'paying their dues' in dead PCs, unrealized character concepts, and general wonder and frustration.5e turned that down from 11, but only to about 8.  With a good DM and a Champion Fighter pregen in a rules-stable, open entry,  characters raised after every session, organized play setting - AL - preferably with an experienced AD&D veteran at the table (or at least venue), 5e is reasonably accessible to new players.  I still see it lose more new players after 1 session than I saw with 4e (but also retain more returning ones) - but 5e attracts so many more, it doesn't matter.One difference is that Encounters was free throughout the 4e/E era, while in AL, the DM purchases the adventure (and you at least need to borrow a PH to look up spells, for instance).  Encounters, you sat down, picked a character, played using a poster map with counters that the DM got with the adventure. So, the financial investment was 0.You probably  buy your own dice by the end of the season.  When a new player would take up DMing after a season or two, and a stable group form, it'd often spin off to a home campaign... and they'd all buy no books & share one DDI account.I remember wondering how the heck WotC planned to make a profit.   The roles were pretty intuitive, and the pregens would be a moderately balanced party (much smaller than a WoW raid, as I understand it), so that was consistently a non-issue, IMX. Presumably, for the TTRPG experience that 4e provided.  In 3.x that was true (and the people into it sustained PF pretty well). But, in 4e, while you could engage in planned builds, the payoff was low by comparison.  Coming up with a viable build was a matter of simply picking a power or feat you liked when you leveled - maybe retraining something that didn't work out for you - and putting one of your stat bumps to your primary, every time. 5e's design & presentation is a brilliant compromise between accessibility to new players and acceptability to long-time & returning ones.  4e got that wrong, erring too much on the design side to new-player appeal, yet marketing to long-time players at initial release, and returning ones with the "Red Box"/Essentials reboot. in that, 5e & AL is just like 4e & Encounters was - just minus all the edition warring, and plus a TT gaming renaissance and over-due 80s come-back. OK/and/ that, too.</blockquote>

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