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Message: <blockquote data-quote="shurai" data-source="post: 3452202">Very interesting link!  Thanks for posting it.  There's a lot to think about in there; I'm going to try to limit myself to his thoughts on Skills.I find it interesting that his examples, as you say, rely on Skill Focus, which is rarely taken by D&D player characters.  So, I imagine we can effectively bump his level calculations up by three for the typical character.  As such, the adventuring wizard version of Einstein would probably be Level 8 or so, it seems to me.It looks like his argument, with regard to skills anyway, is that a +15 or so is pretty close to the limits of human performance in the real world.  I guess his point is that D&D is a lot more "superhuman" than we give it credit for.  According to his analysis, it looks like my table is right for thinking about D&D worlds, which present an exaggerated (even by cinematic standards, it seems) view of human performance.Also, in my mind, "utter beginner" is the same as "completely untrained."  Maybe it's more clear if I add that to the table?[code]Rank Meaning---- -------  0  Utter beginner/completely untrained  4  Early career or late apprenticeship  8  Knowledgeable veteran or professional 12  Among the best in a large town or small city 16  Among the best in a large city or a small country 20  Among the best in the world[/code]</blockquote>