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Message: <blockquote data-quote="hong" data-source="post: 1843869" data-attributes="member: 537">Poppycock. They are plenty relevant to any individual game, with the degree of relevance depending on the particulars of each game. They are LESS relevant to any discussion of class balance, especially when you start talking about features that are supposed to be common across games.Correct. Sensible discussion looks at the whole, decides which aspect dominates the game, and tries to correct what causes problems with that aspect before moving on to other aspects.When trying to fix a flat tire, do you start by changing all the tires to see which one is flat?Legacy reasons. NEXT!Did anyone say it was?You have somehow managed to distil the challenges of adventuring down to "who lasts longest in melee". This must be another example of that "imagination" thingy I keep hearing about.So a DM can always compensate for any balance shortcomings that exist. So friggin' what? The shortcomings are still there, and you have simply shifted the question. Why SHOULD the DM have to compensate, when the problem is with the ruleset in the first place?Just because it's trotted out like a mantra doesn't make it true.Multiclassed characters in general may be more flexible than single-classed characters, but that was never in dispute. It's when you come to multiclassed CASTERS that the argument goes out the window. Compare the options available to a 16th level cleric, or a 16th level wizard, to those available to an 8/8 cleric/wizard. The multiclassed guy can't teleport, can't use contact other plane, can't passwall, and can't cast wall of force. He's waited 6 levels to get the use of dim door and improved invis compared to the wizard, or air walk and restoration compared to the cleric.He can cast stoneskin, but it lasts for half as long as the wizard's, or divine favor, but it gives half the bonus of the cleric's. He can't go toe-to-toe like a cleric, because of those 8 wizard HD, and he can't blast monsters from afar, because of those 8 cleric levels dragging down his fireball damage. Even if you only look at low-level spells, the cleric and wiz both have the option of filling all their high-level slots with low-level spells, should the situation demand it. So what, exactly, is the multiclassed schmuck supposed to do?And as has been said before, D&D is a game designed for a group, not a sole PC. When you come to the group situation, a party that has access to all the spells of a high-level cleric and a high-level wizard will be able to meet a far wider variety of challenges than one that is hamstrung by only having low-level spells. So where, exactly, is this "flexibility"?Heh.</blockquote>

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