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Message: <blockquote data-quote="Keldryn" data-source="post: 4712462" data-attributes="member: 11999">Even back when I was playing 1st Edition, I had always thought that the combat matrices, saving throw tables, and turning undead charts felt like they were missing from the PHB.  At the time, I just assumed it was because the three core books had been released about a year apart from each other (MM 1977, PHB 1978, DMG 1979) and the game system wasn't actually finished being written until the DMG's release in '79.  Given that the books weren't released at the same time, I guess it was assumed that players would supplement the "new" AD&D books with their original D&D rules...  I don't know, because I didn't start playing until 1987 when I was 13.But it always felt to me like those tables belonged in the PHB, not the DMG, and I just chalked it up to the system still being under development when the PHB came out.  Thus, additional notes on spells were in the DMG because of issues that came up after the spell descriptions in the PHB had been written.  Made sense to me at 13, anyway.  I'm sure that some of it was done to preserve a sense of "mystery," but some of it was probably also because the system was still being developed.As a DM I'm glad to have that sort of mechanical info in the hands of the players, as it offloads some of the number-crunching work that I have to do when running the game.  And I always prefer it if the players aren't reading the MM, DMG, and other booked intended for the DM, but most players I know also DM at times, and it's not a realistic expectation.  However, I always do (politely) insist that players not consult the DMG and MMs during play.  Didn't seem to be much of an issue for me in 1e and 2e games, but Summon Monster spells in 3e really started to annoy me after a while.  Something about using the Monster Manual as an in-game spell catalogue rubbed me the wrong way.</blockquote>

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