Reply to thread

Message

<blockquote data-quote="GMMichael" data-source="post: 7477621" data-attributes="member: 6685730">While I'm thinking about it: the reason that min-maxing is a &quot;problem&quot; is that it results in awkward, unbalanced characters - not because optimizing is wrong.&nbsp; Preventing it is one of the implications of character classes: &quot;your character must take this much combat skill, have this many hit points, and gain these automatic special powers at each level.&quot;I don't want the other players in my game to see the approach of another PC and think, &quot;here comes the guy who forgot to fill out all the other attributes.&quot;But...Nagol provided us something to work with.1) Optimization preference.2) GM control.3) GM control.4) Optimization preference.5) Suppressed bloodlust.So, as GD/GMs, we can't do anything about 1, 4, and 5.&nbsp; <a href="https://youtu.be/FtvFbXG-7Mw?t=34s" target="_blank">Not that there's anything wrong with that</a>.&nbsp; Of the undesirable tasks in 2, GMs have full control.&nbsp; Personally, I wouldn't want to roll d100, add my +30 from being Trained three times, subtract 40 due to my (blank) equipment, add/subtract another situational bonus from the GM, and then decide if the result is below my attribute, when the rest of the game implies that high numbers are good.&nbsp; Just to find out that I failed anyway, since my opponent made his (blank) roll.&nbsp; I could be wrong, but of the tasks to which Nagol refers, Succeed/Fail rules are probably a major portion.&nbsp; Nagol doesn't have to min-max if those tasks either aren't there, or become less undesirable.3) Avoiding character retirement.&nbsp; Most players (looking at you, Paranoia players) don't want their characters to die or otherwise become un-fun to play.&nbsp; The player's job is to make decisions that avoid this fate, the GM's job is to provide story options that don't corner a PC into it, and the GD's job is to provide rules that always offer the potential to have fun.&nbsp; Nagol min-maxes because there's a real possibility (or uncomfortably high odds) that a GM or GD is going to retire the character.&nbsp; That possibility should be there - sometimes it adds to the fun.&nbsp; But it shouldn't force a PC into min-maxing.&nbsp; WotC and Paizo have modified their Succeed/Fail rules in terms of magic spells, by altering, wherever possible, Save-or-Die spells into Save-or-Suck spells - and Nagol has less to worry about <img src="https://cdn.jsdelivr.net/joypixels/assets/8.0/png/unicode/64/1f642.png" class="smilie smilie--emoji" loading="lazy" width="64" height="64" alt=":)" title="Smile&nbsp; &nbsp; :)"&nbsp; data-smilie="1"data-shortname=":)" /></blockquote>

[QUOTE="GMMichael, post: 7477621, member: 6685730"] While I'm thinking about it: the reason that min-maxing is a "problem" is that it results in awkward, unbalanced characters - not because optimizing is wrong. Preventing it is one of the implications of character classes: "your character must take this much combat skill, have this many hit points, and gain these automatic special powers at each level." I don't want the other players in my game to see the approach of another PC and think, "here comes the guy who forgot to fill out all the other attributes." But...Nagol provided us something to work with. 1) Optimization preference. 2) GM control. 3) GM control. 4) Optimization preference. 5) Suppressed bloodlust. So, as GD/GMs, we can't do anything about 1, 4, and 5. [URL="https://youtu.be/FtvFbXG-7Mw?t=34s"]Not that there's anything wrong with that[/URL]. Of the undesirable tasks in 2, GMs have full control. Personally, I wouldn't want to roll d100, add my +30 from being Trained three times, subtract 40 due to my (blank) equipment, add/subtract another situational bonus from the GM, and then decide if the result is below my attribute, when the rest of the game implies that high numbers are good. Just to find out that I failed anyway, since my opponent made his (blank) roll. I could be wrong, but of the tasks to which Nagol refers, Succeed/Fail rules are probably a major portion. Nagol doesn't have to min-max if those tasks either aren't there, or become less undesirable. 3) Avoiding character retirement. Most players (looking at you, Paranoia players) don't want their characters to die or otherwise become un-fun to play. The player's job is to make decisions that avoid this fate, the GM's job is to provide story options that don't corner a PC into it, and the GD's job is to provide rules that always offer the potential to have fun. Nagol min-maxes because there's a real possibility (or uncomfortably high odds) that a GM or GD is going to retire the character. That possibility should be there - sometimes it adds to the fun. But it shouldn't force a PC into min-maxing. WotC and Paizo have modified their Succeed/Fail rules in terms of magic spells, by altering, wherever possible, Save-or-Die spells into Save-or-Suck spells - and Nagol has less to worry about :) [/QUOTE]

Verification